Finance Committee on May 29th, 2017

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Once again, I think that the objective is commendable, but the next proposal I am going to make is directly aligned with what the parliamentary budget officer asked us to do when he testified two weeks ago. That is why I am going to vote against this amendment. I hope my honourable colleague will support my motion, which is directly in keeping with the wishes of the parliamentary budget officer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Yes, we agree on that point. Amendment NDP-4 is almost identical, word for word, to amendment LIB-3. It also proposes that lines 12 to 25 on page 80 be deleted, which I am also proposing, but in a subsequent amendment.

We can fight over who will be able to say that his amendment was passed rather than the other's.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I'm sorry.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

This amendment will have the same effect as the one my colleague will be proposing later. If he wants to play this game and be able to state that he is better and managed to get his amendments passed as opposed to me, we can do that, that suits me, but I think that Canadians will be able to see what game we are playing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there any further discussion on NDP-4?

(Amendment NDP-4 negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We will turn to amendment LIB-3.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think this is very timely, for the reasons I've just mentioned. This amendment is directly in keeping with the wishes of the parliamentary budget officer. He would no longer be under the stewardship of the Speakers of the two Houses, and not only for his work plan. He would inform the Speakers of it. This work plan would be tabled but it would no longer be necessary to obtain the approval of the two Speakers before the parliamentary budget officer could continue his work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there any further discussion?

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I would just like to mention that I still believe at the fundamental level that the parliamentary budget officer actually should be responsible and should be accountable to parliamentarians. I understand we want independence for him or her, but I don't think we've come up with a perfect mechanism where we actually ensure that at the end of the day, he or she is accountable to parliamentarians so we can hold the government to account. It's not for the parliamentary budget officer to be holding the government to account for us. It's his or her job to help us hold the government to account.

(Amendment LIB-3 agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We're now on amendment NDP-5.

Mr. Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

This is meant to be a clarification, once again. There could be a problematic situation where the parliamentary budget officer would hold more than one office.

I could read it in English:

The Parliamentary Budget Officer shall perform the duties of the office on a full-time basis and shall not hold any other office or engage in any other employment for reward.

I think that this amendment is straightforward. It specifies that this is a full-time job and that it will not be tolerated that a parliamentary budget officer hold other offices.

I think that is reasonable. I can't see how anyone could object to that. And so, I hope that my colleagues will support me, so that we may include this measure in the bill and make it clear for everyone; while working full-time you cannot occupy more than one position.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there any further discussion?

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I have a question for the officials.

Is the parliamentary budget officer right now considered a public office holder?

[Don Booth]

As a Governor in Council appointee, yes, he would be a public office holder for the purpose of the Conflict of Interest Act, although he's not a reporting public office holder currently.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

As a public office holder, though, he is forbidden from being able to be lawfully employed. Is that correct?

[Don Booth]

Yes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

In this case, then, the amendment is not valid, because it is already covered by the limits of a public office holder. Is that correct?

[Don Booth]

That is my understanding. Certainly he could not be employed doing anything that could be conceived as a conflict. I would have to check the Conflict of Interest Act to definitively say that it completely bars external employment, but I'm fairly certain it does.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I'm pretty sure as a public office holder, you cannot draw income from anyone else.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Do you want in again, Mr. Dusseault?

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

All those in favour of amendment NDP-5?

(Amendment negatived)

On amendment NDP-6, go ahead, Mr. Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Amendment NDP-6, in line 7 on page 80, refers to submitting the draft estimates to the Speakers.

The bill states that:

(9) These estimates are to be considered by the Speakers of the Senate and House of Commons, and then transmitted to the president of the Treasury Board, who must table the estimates in the House of Commons along with the estimates of the government for that fiscal year.

It simply states that the estimates are submitted to the Speaker of the Senate and of the House of Commons and then transmitted to the president of the Treasury Board. We want to replace the word “considered” with “submitted” in order to remove a certain influence that could be exercised by the two Speakers that of the House of that of the Senate over the budget of the parliamentary budget officer, in this case, and over the expenses planned for the upcoming fiscal year. And so rather than referring to the consideration of the estimates, we speak here about submitting them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I have a question for the officials.

What happens right now with different officers or agents of Parliament? Do they submit it to the Speaker and then it is conveyed to the President of the Treasury Board? Is this a similar arrangement to that?