Finance Committee on April 24th, 2020

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I have limited time here, Mr. Karsten, and I'd like to get one more question in.

In some provinces—I believe in Quebec, but my colleague Mr. Ste-Marie can correct me if I'm mistaken—there are actually laws in place to help discourage direct conversations between the federal government and municipalities. I don't want to pass judgment on that sort of approach, but I anticipate there will be a conversation at some point in time.

If we help out with some sort of emergency operating costs, the provinces may want to get some of that back for other areas where they would normally be partnering with municipalities. Are you worried there might be an impact if we put money up front to keep the doors of municipalities open, or that we may be jeopardizing the opportunity to fully participate in the recovery if, for example, capital investments are not possible because too much was allocated to the operating side?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Keep the answer as tight as you can, Bill.

[Bill Karsten]

There's some concern, but again I can only stress that it's federal leadership we need right now. The recovery is the next step. We need to have the crisis that we face right now addressed immediately.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, all.

I want to go to one question each from Mr. Ste-Marie, Mr. Julian, Mr. Cumming and Ms. Dzerowicz, but before I get there, I have a question for SARM.

Ray, in the last couple of weeks the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, the Canadian Pork Council, the Canadian Federation of Agriculture and a couple of others talked about business risk management, which was cut back in 2013 by about 15%, and also about price insurance for hogs and cattle and a set-aside for the cattle industry. What are you hearing from your membership on those issues, and how does it relate to the grain industry specifically?

[Raymond Orb]

Of course, the livestock industry is under a lot of pressure right now because of the effects of COVID on some of the packing plants in Alberta. I know we're having conversations with our provincial agriculture minister next week. We have consulted with Minister Bibeau on this, too, and she's aware of the set-aside program. We're concerned about that.

We're concerned about the grain, too, including the movement of it and the workers in the entire industry, including farmers and their families, right up to the point where the grain is delivered and even at the ports. In Vancouver, we had a conversation with the port authority not too long ago.

We have a lot of concerns about that, and we're asking the federal government, in particular Minister Bibeau, to look at AgriStability and AgriInvest. Those are the support systems that cattlemen and grain farmers have. You're right that they have been cut back, and we're asking the federal government to speed up the process to fix them. They're there for a reason. They're not working now, and they need to be repaired.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Ray.

Go ahead, Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I want to point out to Mr. Fraser that it's possible to make the funding available while respecting the jurisdictions. Think of the social housing agreement or the money for infrastructure.

I have another question for you, Ms. Bolduc.

In your opinion, what measures could be implemented to help businesses or organizations that provide local services?

[Claire Bolduc]

First, often very small businesses provide local services, and these businesses can't access funding or loans. Currently, the best way to help them is to give them direct subsidies to make up for the shortfall caused by the last months of the pandemic. The subsidies don't need to be large. The subsidies would enable them to get their activities back on track, because often these businesses can't access funding or loans for their operations or working capital.

Second, the contribution of partners in businesses who participate in municipal, provincial or federal politics must be acknowledged. Entrepreneurs are called upon to participate in politics precisely because they've been successful in managing their businesses. We want them in our communities.

These are two easy ways to meet the needs of businesses that provide local services.

The last way to help them, and perhaps the most important way, would be to emphasize the environmental cost of doing business with companies that come from very far away and to charge for that cost. This would really show the importance of having local businesses. It would be done over the longer term. Of course, it wouldn't happen very quickly, but it would certainly give a tremendous boost to the whole concept of local services.

Lastly, I want to talk about the government's local services. I'm talking more about local provincial services than local federal services. Service Canada offices here are no longer accessible in person. The offices are accessible only online, which means that an entire community can't access tangible services. This also prevents people in rural areas from having well-paying jobs. This may be another way of looking at local services.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

[Claire Bolduc]

I hope that this answered your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a last quick question for Mayor Coté and Mayor Hurley. The federal government has a lot of tools around the banking system. We know locally that credit unions have brought their rates down to zero on credit cards and on lines of credit.

Should the federal government be using its tools to reduce the interest rates and the mortgage penalties that are being paid on deferrals from our big banks in Canada?

[Mike Hurley]

There's no question in my mind. We've seen it all through our housing crisis, which still exists. In my view, the big banks have a free pass in being part of the solution through that crisis. And in this crisis right now some of our smaller credit unions here in B.C. have stepped up to the plate, lowered their interest rates, and in some cases suspended interest rates for a number of months to allow people to work their way through this.

In my opinion, there's no question that the big banks should be stepping up, freezing the rates, and actually, I believe, freezing payments at this time, and for a number of months, to help our country out. After all, they have profited greatly for many years and been protected by our government, so I think it's time for the big banks to step up and do their part for Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mayor Coté, do you want to add a few words?

[Jonathan Coté]

I don't have a lot to add on that. I think municipalities and transit agencies do have opportunities to seek debt, although usually our debt financing is for investing in capital projects. We do not seek debt to look at operating deficits.

I think any assistance that can be looked at provincially or federally to reduce our debt servicing costs would be helpful, at least from our immediate perspective. It's not addressing the most immediate crisis that we're currently facing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Thank you all.

We'll have a single question from Mr. Cumming, and then Ms. Dzerowicz to wrap it up.

James.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

This is for Mr. Ellis. Thank you for talking about the importance of the resource sector, an industry that's going to be able to help us generate some revenue after we come out of this crisis. We did hear from the governor of the Bank of Canada about the importance of the resource industry in the economy and the recovery, and you confirmed that.

What are you hearing from your members, specifically those in the resource sector, about what needs to happen to make sure that this industry can thrive in your area?

[Brandon Ellis]

Thank you very much for the question.

I'll be very quick, Mr. Chair. I encourage everyone on this call to visit imaginethepotential.ca. It highlights all the wonderful things that the Newfoundland and Labrador oil and gas sector is all about and has the potential to be all about.

Noia is our oil and gas industry association. From what I've gathered, they're going to be looking for some level of investment from the federal government. I can't comment on what that might be, but what we've heard from our membership just generally is that they would like to see government get out of the way to some extent and allow some of these energy projects to move along.

As I had mentioned in my testimony, Bill C-69 is fairly problematic. We've commented on that, and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce has also commented on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thanks very much, Mr. Ellis.

Ms. Dzerowicz, you'll have to wrap it up. Go ahead, Julie, with one question.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Yes, thank you so much.

I want to thank everyone for their presentations and for their contributions to the excellent conversation over the last two hours.

My quick last question is for Mr. Karsten. You have done a wonderful job of presenting a proposal at the federal level in terms of the support that you're looking for federally. Can you give us a better idea about the proposal that has gone to the provincial level? Would you elaborate on that?

[Bill Karsten]

Thank you for that, Julie. It's a great question.

One has to understand, and I'm sure you do, the complexity in terms of.... The Federation of Canadian Municipalities works directly with the members of Parliament, certainly with bureaucrats—in other words, directly with the government and all the other party leaders and their caucuses.

We don't have a direct role like that with the provinces, so it's up to each individual province and territory. We have this whole tapestry of different things going on, and that's why we believe so very firmly that when it's crisis time like this, there is a role for federal leadership. We don't control what goes on with the provinces and the territories. Many mayors are also talking directly, but there's no uniform voice when it comes to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you all.

I know that not everyone got a lot of questions, but your presentations go into evidence. There are others listening to these presentations, and they certainly go up the line and are a great help to the government in what I would call the rolling decision-making we're seeing these days in this pandemic. I want to say a sincere thank you to each and every one of you for coming forward.

We'll turn it back to the clerk so they can do a test with the witnesses for the next panel. The meeting is suspended while they do that. Thank you all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I believe we're ready to roll, so I will call the meeting to order.

MPs and witnesses, welcome to the second panel of meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance.

As is well known from the notice that went out, we are operating under the order of reference of Tuesday, March 24, to study the government's response to COVID-19. We're looking forward to the constructive criticism and suggestions that we'll hear from witnesses today.

With that, I want to thank you all for coming. We are under a tight time frame with seven witnesses, so if you can hold your presentations to five minutes or less, it would give us the opportunity for a full round of questions.

We'll start with Adam Brown of the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations.

Welcome, Adam. The floor is yours.

[Adam Brown, Chair, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, esteemed committee members and fellow witnesses.

I would like to start by acknowledging the traditional lands of the people of Treaty No. 7 and region 3 of the Métis Nation of Alberta, from where I am joining you today.

My name is Adam Brown. I am the chair of the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, or CASA. I am also the vice-president external at the University of Alberta Students' Union and a fifth-year student completing my degree with a focus on business, economics and law.

CASA is a non-partisan, not-for-profit organization that represents over 360,000 students at colleges, polytechnics and universities from coast to coast. Through a formal partnership with the Union étudiante du Québec, with which I will be sharing time today, we are a trusted national student voice.

I'm thankful to have been invited to appear before this committee. I can recall sitting here only months ago to discuss student supports with you in a very different context. Since we last spoke, the COVID-19 global pandemic has brought an abrupt end to the semesters of many students. At a time when students were preparing for final exams and getting ready for a summer of hard work, students' experiences with their education were moved online, and many students who were expecting a summer of work saw those opportunities disappear in a matter of days.

I cannot stress enough how turbulent this experience has been for students across the country. Students, much like the rest of Canada, are dealing with the discomfort of uncertainty. Like many Canadians, we would like to know when we can return to our daily lives, including the classrooms we once enjoyed as part of our routine, the jobs we held to help us get by and the company of friends we cherish so dearly in student life.

As a student leader, I'd like to share my gratitude with all of you for the announcement made earlier this week to support students. Many students will now be supported by either the Canada emergency response benefit or the Canada emergency student benefit, receiving income they otherwise would have lost. I would also like to highlight that students will have a harder time than ever saving for their tuition payments come September, and the generous conditions to both Canada student grants and Canada student loans will help students access and afford their education.

All of this being said, at CASA we believe that any situation can be improved. There is one group we feel was missed in this week's student aid announcement, and that's international students, including those who are stuck in Canada due to the COVID-19 pandemic and are unable to get home. These students have been displaced by the global pandemic and are stuck in a familiar country, but it is nonetheless a foreign one.

For a moment, pause and put yourself in their shoes. Wouldn't that be a scary experience?

International students stuck in Canada can receive the Canada emergency response benefit if they worked enough, but they are not eligible for the Canada emergency student benefit or many of the employment initiatives previously announced. This means that while many international students are getting by, many others will be left with little to no support from the Canadian government for food, rent or the basic necessities. Let's remember that the COVID-19 pandemic has disrupted international travel, and many cannot return home.

I would now like you to pause again and ask yourselves what you would want a foreign government to do for a Canadian student stuck abroad. We're asking that question at CASA.

Let us not forget that international students are an important part of Canadian campuses. They pay a high value for the education they receive and contribute over $10 billion to the Canadian economy while doing it. For this, international students deserve support and access to a high-quality education within Canada come September.

I want to thank the committee once again for inviting me to come and speak and to represent the voice of Canadian students.

I look forward to answering your questions.

I'll now turn the floor over to my colleague Philippe LeBel from the Quebec Student Union.

[Philippe LeBel, President of Union étudiante du Québec, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations]

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

I want to thank the committee members for giving us the opportunity to speak here today.

Of course, I won't repeat everything that my colleague said. It goes without saying that the assistance promised by Ottawa this week was highly anticipated.

As a student researcher, I'll be speaking to you today specifically about research and research funding. Of course, the announcement of the extension of research grants is more than welcome. However, to mitigate the impact of the crisis, the assistance must be well managed. There are two important points.

The first point is that there are two types of funding: direct funding and indirect funding. In terms of direct funding, we're talking about students who have received a grant directly from the federal granting agencies because they applied through a competition. In terms of indirect funding, when researchers apply for a grant for a project, they may include a grant for a master's or doctoral student. The planned increase in the duration of the grants must be applied to both direct and indirect funding.

The second point to remember is the funding of the projects. A number of expenses will be incurred during the shutdown period. For example, a great deal of health research requires access to cell lines or animal lines. Maintaining these lines during the social distancing period or starting them up again afterwards will lead to additional costs and time required to complete the projects. For student researchers to be successful, they need more than just money. The financial and technical resources must also be in place so that they can complete their projects.

This concludes my presentation.

Thank you again for the invitation.