Evidence of meeting #47 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cabinet.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Your original question, Mr. Poilievre, was how much was my immediate family paid for—
Conservative
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
—their work with WE. My wife has never been paid since I became Prime Minister.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Mr. Poilievre, could we please have order? We'll allow the Prime Minister to answer the question and then we'll move on to Ms. Dzerowicz.
Mr. Prime Minister, you have about 30 seconds.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
The Ethics Commissioner has fully cleared my wife to continue her advocacy and her work with WE Charity and other organizations—
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
—in the kind of work that she's been doing all her life. She's doing it—
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
—unpaid for WE. She is not being paid by WE for her advocacy or for her podcasts. They are simply reimbursing her for expenses.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister and Mr. Poilievre, and I'm sorry for leaving the line.
We'll go to Ms. Dzerowicz next. Then we'll follow with Ms. Gaudreau and Mr. Angus.
Ms. Dzerowicz, you have five minutes.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
Prime Minister, I want to say a huge thanks to you for being here today. I also want to say a heartfelt thanks on behalf of Davenport residents. Particularly during the early days of the pandemic, the daily announcements you made were a lifeline for them, both in terms of information and in terms of the support that we were providing. They really received the feeling that we had their backs, so I want to say a huge thanks to you.
The first thing I want to talk about is your recusing yourself. You had indicated you felt you should have recused yourself because of the perception. I want to ask a question.
If you were to recuse yourself from every decision that might indirectly impact your family, how would that affect your ability to serve as Prime Minister and MP for Papineau?
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
I think, obviously, that is an important question. There are many things I do and we do as a government that impact millions of Canadians across the country.
For example, my mother is a well-known, long-standing advocate for mental health issues. One of the very first commitments we made to Canadians was to invest $5 billion into mental health supports across the provinces. It is possible that I shouldn't have been involved in that decision, because my mom is a well-known advocate and works in the mental health universe. Obviously, that would be silly. It is not a conflict, but these kinds of things constantly come up.
That's why, when the issue of WE came forward, my concern was to push back on it, to delay its going forward to cabinet so that more due diligence could happen. In that case, looking back on it, it would have been better, for perception's sake, had I simply stepped away and not been involved at all. Perhaps, then, the organization and the program would be delivered right now. I always look to serve Canadians in the best possible way, and around youth programs I have a level of experience in them that meant I felt I was useful in contributing. None of this program was in any way going to benefit any members of my family. That was something I was very comfortable with.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you.
You've made it clear that.... There were a number of questions around board governance for WE and the number of layoffs that had taken place at WE Charity. You clearly articulated for Canadians and anyone listening that the due diligence is the responsibility of our civil service.
I want to ask this, though. Mr. Shugart testified that no one in the public service raised any red flags about the WE Charity's financial well-being. I want to directly ask you, did you see or hear about any red flags being raised concerning the WE Charity's finances and resources?
The second part of my question is this. You asked Minister Chagger to speak with the head of Treasury Board for some additional oversight.
Could you talk about both of those issues? I see a bit of a correlation there.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Obviously there are now certain media reports and questions about the WE organization's financial structures and activities. Those obviously weren't public knowledge and weren't flagged to me at any point during the May 8 conversation or the May 21 or 22 conversation.
In regard to the extra oversight that I recommended we bring in between Minister Chagger and the Treasury Board, that was designed to lay out the payments to this third party WE organization for delivering the program in specific tranches that would provide an update before further funds were flowed, once they'd worked through the initial cohorts.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thank you.
Minister Morneau mentioned to us that more than 70 emergency programs were introduced, with a spend of over $200 billion.
Can you give Canadians an idea about what your involvement is in the big policy decisions that come before cabinet?
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Through the months of April and May specifically, I was working all day on policy briefs and design for the Canada emergency response benefit, for the wage subsidy, for supports for Canadians, for responding to PPE challenges. It was a time of extraordinary activity for the government as the civil service stepped up to deliver things that had never done before, in time frames that would have been unimaginable.
We as a cabinet and I as Prime Minister were tremendously active in this time, because we knew that Canadians were counting on us to be there for them as we asked them to do extremely difficult things—to leave their jobs, to stay home, to hunker down so that we could defeat this virus or slow this virus. We needed to be there for them and we were deeply involved in every aspect of how we—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We will have to move on, Prime Minister.
I have Ms. Gaudreau next and then Mr. Angus—
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.
I would like to give my time to my colleague Mr. Fortin.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay, we're going to Mr. Fortin.
Before you start, Rhéal, we will have a slot open for the official opposition—okay, Mr. Poilievre will be on—and then we will end the day with Mr. Fraser.
Mr. Fortin is next, for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Trudeau, on April 29, when you announced the program, would it not have been simpler to be transparent and to disclose to people all the relationships you and your family had with WE?
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
On April 29, I was not aware that WE was involved in this program. The decision had not yet been made.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
When you announced it, you did not say that you had ties with WE. Surprisingly, on April 22, Mr. Kielburger seemed to say that he had received a call from your office telling him about the decision.
