Evidence of meeting #47 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cabinet.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
You did not travel anywhere in February 2011? I have pulled up an article profiling Jason Dehni, which notes that in February 2011 he, along with Seamus O'Regan, Craig and Marc Kielburger, Amanda Alvaro and Katie Telford, among many extraordinary others, travelled to a region of Kenya to build an art school.
You know nothing about that trip?
Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Office of the Prime Minister
I'm familiar with how they went on that trip. I was not on that trip.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay, we'll have to end it there, Mr. Cooper.
We'll go to Mr. Fraser, followed by Mr. Cumming.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Telford, for being with us today.
I want to prod into the May 8 meeting a little, where there was push-back and concerns were raised. In response to Mr. Barrett's question earlier, you indicated the kind of thing that was pushed back on was the binary choice presented by the public service.
I'm curious. Did you or the Prime Minister actually push back on the idea that it had to be a binary choice? Did you ask that they consider other organizations?
Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Office of the Prime Minister
Yes, those were the types of questions we were interested in. As the committee has heard, I believe, from some of the preceding witnesses, they had considered and assessed a number of other partners, but that was exactly the kind of thing that we wanted to know.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Nevertheless, they remained confident that the choice was binary. “We go ahead with WE Charity or the program doesn't happen.” Is that fair?
Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Office of the Prime Minister
That's right.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Did you or anybody else at PMO ever ask WE Charity to administer the Canada student service grant program?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
There was evidence tendered before this committee previously. There was some other unsolicited proposal for a youth entrepreneurship strategy. Did you or anybody at PMO ever have conversations with the Kielburgers, or others at WE Charity, about that program?
Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Office of the Prime Minister
I don't believe so.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Frankly, did you ever speak with the Kielburgers personally since—I don't know, we'll pick a date back around the beginning—say, the first of March, before the pandemic began?
Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Office of the Prime Minister
I'm pretty sure, because I have been racking my brain on this, that the last time I saw Marc Kielburger was at an event with hundreds of people in Toronto, where I met his wife and exchanged pleasantries. It was a Toronto Life event, or something of that kind, in December 2017.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Did you or anybody else in the Prime Minister's Office have any role in actually negotiating the contribution agreement?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
All of the details around which entity was being paid would have been done through the public service, not through political office?
Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Office of the Prime Minister
Yes. There were.... On the specifics, I would just say more broadly that policy staff in different offices were ensuring certain objectives were being met through the contribution agreement, but the negotiation absolutely was not happening through the political staff at all.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Thank you. I appreciate the clarification as well.
I'm curious. As a local MP I get unsolicited proposals all the time for projects, usually in my own riding. Is this something that you find comes up, perhaps with organizations that are bigger than the ones in my backyard, that actually pitch unsolicited proposals to the Prime Minister's office for policy ideas or programs?
Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Office of the Prime Minister
That does happen. It did not happen, in this case, that I received any unsolicited proposal directly, but that absolutely does happen from all kinds of organizations.
Staff in the Prime Minister's office.... I encourage them to be talking to stakeholders and staying connected to the ground, talking to MPs of all parties when they have something that they want to pitch that they believe the government should be doing that allows us to serve Canadians better.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
The reason I ask is there was an innuendo through the course of this committee hearing that it was somehow inappropriate that an organization would have had an inside track to make unsolicited proposals, but I agree with you. I think it's actually a positive thing. In fact, those kinds of pitches have led to projects going ahead in my own community from non-profits routinely, frankly, that don't know the best way to turn.
I'm curious. Have you actually seen any positive programs implemented as a result of those kinds of unsolicited proposals?
I hate to put you on the spot. If there's not one front of mind, I'll let you skate on this one.
Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Office of the Prime Minister
I'm sure there have been. I can think of a number of examples of women's organizations in particular that have contacted me over time that felt they had an open door with me to try to see if they could have more of a role in working with the federal government to promote women in all kinds of different sectors.
I can't think of a specific example off the top of my head, but there certainly have been some.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
One of the things I'm curious about.... I was a bit involved through the finance team's efforts to take feedback from stakeholders all across Canada on some of the emergency measures our government has put forward in response to COVID-19. Frankly, I was not engaged in consultation processes with the Canada student service grant.
From your perspective, how much time did this eat up in comparison to the other programs? I'm thinking about CERB, the wage subsidy, rental assistance, programs to support women's programs, to support charities, etc. I don't want to rhyme off a list of dozens of programs here.
What was the time breakdown? Was this a major time-suck of the policy development, or how does it compare to the other programs?
Liberal
Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Office of the Prime Minister
I can't speak for everyone involved in this, because I'm sure it took a lot of work by both policy staff in different offices and of course the officials who worked on this program, though I do know that many of those same people were working on more than one program and issue at a time to support Canadians.
As you've heard, in terms of the Prime Minister, I think probably in normal circumstances there would have been some greater lengths of time between cabinet committee and committee and briefings. What has made this time so unprecedented is that things are moving from one....
As I said on the Canada emergency wage subsidy, there were 15 decision points on April 5 for a wage subsidy that was, I think, desperately needed by Canadians and Canadian businesses, and it was being announced the next day. That's how quickly things have been moving.