Finance Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[Daniel Cloutier]

The workers are totally committed to the development of the industry. They want to see it grow and be profitable. The workers are alert to developments and very often have to acquire new knowledge. We need to attract new workers, because this sector has become a bit lacklustre. We have to work with them to figure out how artificial intelligence can help, how it can be a tool to facilitate the work or even an agent of growth. We will not be able to succeed in putting these measures into operation if we do not talk to them and consult them about their capacities and needs and the things that would have to be put in place so they can enjoy greater success.

We have excellent workers in this sector. In fact, that is part of what makes us stand out at the global level. It is important to continue investing in these workers and to listen to them, particularly when it comes to technological changes and ways of doing things in the workplace.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

I will come back to the other three pillars in my next round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have a minute and a half.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

In the time left for this round, I would like to address another subject.

Previously, we often talked about the aeronautics industry; now, we call it the aerospace industry.

Tell us about the significance of the space sector in the industry.

[Daniel Cloutier]

Yes, Canada is very well positioned in the aerospace industry. We need only think of the Canadarm and all the work done at Spar Aerospace. We have to incorporate that into our vision. That is where a lot of technologies originate. Those technologies can then have numerous civilian applications that will make our industry, and what we can offer the rest of the world, flourish.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Since the chair is being generous with time management, you have maybe 30 seconds to tell us about some elements of the second pillar, which is workforce attraction, training and adaptation.

[Daniel Cloutier]

We are on the edge of new technologies. For example, we are seeing virtually autonomous units at Pratt & Whitney for machining certain parts. There is artificial intelligence: We don't really know where it will end up yet, but it is definitely going to be moving ahead. It is important that the workforce be able to adapt to it.

As well, recent years have been characterized by the numerous waves we have been through: When you have a contract, you hire a lot of people, and then, when it slows down, you lay a lot of people off. Ultimately, that has made the industry a lot less attractive and has had an effect on the workforce. In fact, we are seeing that aerospace school enrolment in Quebec is declining or has been shrinking for several years. So we have to make more of an effort to show what a great industry, an innovative industry that offers high quality jobs, it is.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

Now we will go to MP Davies, please.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

Ms. Silas, I'll begin with you, please. You mentioned a patient bill of rights in your opening remarks. I'm wondering if you could expand on that a bit and maybe indicate how it might address the nursing shortage or how it's connected with patient safety and expectations.

[Linda Silas]

What it would do is create minimum standards for all levels of health care and build back the trust that Canadians have in our health care system.

We all hear about the ER closures everywhere and long waits for surgeries. We're seeing a diminution of trust. Creating a patient bill of rights would give them back that trust, would bring back guarantees with regard to staffing levels and would bring back, in long-term care, hours of care. It would really help the provinces with standards.

That's what we've been saying to the federal government for a long time. We're too small a country to have 13 systems. We have to have national standards, and patients need to know what these standards are—and that's through their own rights.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

I read in your pre-budget submission to the committee the following:

The federal government's nursing retention toolkit, launched by Canada's Chief Nursing Officer, Leigh Chapman, includes a number of mechanisms to overcome the nursing shortage in Canada. We recommend investing $1 billion to achieve this goal through a number of initiatives outlined in the toolkit.

Could you outline the key components of the nursing retention tool kit and how you would like to see that proposed investment allocated to implement them?

[Linda Silas]

The tool kit was developed and adopted over a year and a half with health care, nursing stakeholders and researchers. Our chief nurses brought it to government and brought it to life last June, but it doesn't have any teeth because it doesn't have any money. We have great employers out there that want the tool. They want to know how to retain their staff. How do they diminish the agency component? How do they look at nurse-patient ratio? How do they look at mental health services?

Many services exist for other professions but not for nurses. Those are the three components: the staffing, the retention and the mental health. Then they're divided, but it's really a tool kit. It's there on everyone's desk. Now we need the energy, which is the financial push that employers could apply to get it.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I see.

There were media reports in the last day or two, if I heard correctly, that there are 500,000 Quebeckers who have no family doctor. That's not exceptional. I think that's a problem faced by Canadians across the country. I'm curious about the impact that nurse practitioners can have.

Are we training enough nurse practitioners? Are we using them enough?

What role do you see for nurse practitioners in terms of helping create another portal into our health care system?

[Linda Silas]

That's a great question.

When we met the premiers at the Council of the Federation in July, our theme was access to care at all ages. Nurse practitioners were right in the middle. They were presenting with doctors on primary health care. If everyone could have access to health care through a family doctor or a nurse practitioner, we would reduce ER hours. We would make our society healthier, and we would learn to take care of ourselves. Nurse practitioners are there in a holistic way.

I had a nurse practitioner in Ottawa. They asked me, “What's the difference?” I said, “She took 45 minutes to see me compared to the poor family doctor who was trying to do everything in five minutes.” It is a different approach. What we need to do is increase the numbers. Ontario is the largest province and has the largest number; it has close to 7,000 nurses. The rest of the country has only 8,000 nurse practitioners. We have a lot of work to do, but it's a big potential.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

My Liberal colleague brought up the issue of nursing agencies in Canada. I think we all know that, if we allow private nursing agencies to divert nurses from the public system, it costs our system more and it will extend wait-lists for the public system, so it's no answer. I'm just wondering about the federal role in that.

Should the federal government withhold transfer payments to the provinces to discourage that practice? Do you see some role for the federal government to ensure that we have a strong public system in this country?

[Linda Silas]

The biggest role I see for the federal government is safety and bringing regulation. It is scary to know that there are close to 300 companies out there that just need a laptop like you have in front of you to open a company and give that service to employers. They're not regulated at all. We don't know where the nurses come from or if they have proper training. That's the regulation. That's the responsibility of the federal government. Yes, if an employer doesn't invest in its workforce and doesn't create great jobs in their community, they and the province or territory should be punished under the Canada Health Act, which means taking back money. That's the only stick they have.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Ms. Yetman, I want to get a question to you.

You brought up the national school food program. That was a key policy of the NDP in the last election and of my Liberal colleagues. Unfortunately, the $1 billion over five years is back-loaded. The Liberals have chosen to allocate only $79 million in year one of the program, leaving the largest allocation of $261 million occurring in year five.

In your view, should the federal government accelerate the rollout of this funding, given that child hunger has grown dramatically worse across Canada in recent years?

[Heidi Yetman]

I've already said before that one in four children don't have enough food. Even the money that has been proposed is not enough. Consider the infrastructure alone in schools. There are lots of schools that don't have places to cook. Yes, we need more money. The money that's there is a great start. We were really thrilled about it because we had been advocating for many years, but it's still not enough. That's why it's part of our demand. We want to feed all children now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you. I'm sure there will be more opportunity.

Now we will go to our second round.

We're going to start with MP Morantz.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Kothawala, I'm a proud Winnipegger. Winnipeg is a great city. It has a lot of incredible people, a lot of incredible things to do and see. One of the things that I have always thought is really cool ever since I was very young is that Winnipeg is the Slurpee capital of the world. I think that's a really cool thing.

However, one of the things I'm not proud of, based on your testimony, is that new Canadians who are coming to Canada to realize the Canadian dream are investing in franchises like 7-Eleven and other small stores that you represent and are having their hopes and dreams dashed by the soft-on-crime policies of this federal government over the last nine years. We have a catch-and-release system where people get bail, having made repeated offences, instead of jail. This government has ended mandatory jail time and has ended consecutive sentencing. As a result, we have crime running rampant in our streets.

I have three news articles out of the Winnipeg market just this week: on October 4, “Crime behind upcoming closure of four Winnipeg 7-Elevens”; on October 7, “4 Winnipeg 7-Eleven stores permanently closing amid theft concerns”; and on October 8 in the Winnipeg Free Press, “Several 7-Eleven stores in city signal imminent closures after company’s summer crime-fuelled threat”. I know that a Starbucks just closed in Osborne Village for the same reason.

I ask you in all seriousness what you would recommend this federal government do. We're going to be issuing a report. What would you like to see in that report that can preserve the Canadian dream for these amazing new Canadians who have had their hopes completely dashed by a government that prefers to let criminals go than protect our small business people, new Canadians?

[Anne Kothawala]

Thank you very much for the question.

Again, it is a very complex issue, and there are a number of factors that come into it. The reason I talked about contraband tobacco is it's very important to understand that there is a critical connection between the growth of contraband tobacco and the growth of organized crime, which then spills into what we're seeing in cities like Winnipeg. In fact, we do a lot of research with Ernst & Young, and we're about to release a report, which we will share with the committee, that will show that the rate of contraband tobacco in Manitoba is close to 50%. It's shocking, truly.

We need a combined collaborative approach between the federal and provincial governments to work together to solve some of these issues. You're absolutely right. This not only impacts.... We can all feel sorry for the store owners, and I certainly do, but I feel almost more sorry for those communities that are literally.... We're talking about the hollowing out of some communities. Whether it's the corner store, the local diner, the local coffee shop.... If all of those places shutter, it has a huge impact on those communities. The reason a corner store is so important is this. Think about the single mom who needs to get milk at night, and all of a sudden, that local store that she could walk to has closed. Now she has to get into her car and drive to the closest grocery store to buy milk for her kids' cereal the next morning. There is this kind of ripple effect. That is why we are raising this issue and raising the alarm bells, because we feel there is definitely a connection.

We really would like to see some action on the part of the federal government, working with the provinces.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

In Winnipeg there are four Liberal MPs: Winnipeg North, Winnipeg South, Winnipeg South Centre and Saint Boniface—Saint Vital. Have you heard anything from them about this problem? Have any of those Liberal MPs expressed any concerns at all to you about these 7-Eleven stores and the Starbucks having to close because of crime in our streets?

[Anne Kothawala]

To be fair, obviously this news is pretty fresh. It just happened.

We are in the process of reaching out to a number of MPs and provincial MPPs, as well as the municipality, because, again, it involves all layers of government coming together to work on this.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you very much.