Finance Committee on May 29th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

No, we are on this point of privilege.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

No, I'd like to add to that point of privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

On the point of privilege, just let me speak to MP Genuis, and I hope this would help all members if we can find a way forward.

If we did have unanimous consent, we could go back and redo that vote. I'm going to look to all members to see...so that they would be able to vote again. That would be on clause 489. Do we have unanimous consent? MP Genuis feels that members did not have the opportunity to vote. Can we do that?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Great.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The issue is that there was still a violation of privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'm glad that members are open to that. We're now going to go back.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I would like to discuss the question of privilege, as it was with respect to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay, but we cannot do a—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The question of privilege is still on the floor, and the committee has also given unanimous consent to redo the vote. I think that's where we're at.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay, we have unanimous consent to go back. Let's do that now.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'd like to discuss the question of privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

First, we'll go back so that members do have the opportunity to vote. So, we're going to go back—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Mr. Chair, the question of privilege arose because you ignored me. You're in the process of ignoring me again. You can't ignore a question of privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Here's what I can to say to members. In my recollection, what I can say is that, at that time, there was a point of order from MP Genuis. In my opinion, I had dealt with that point of order, and I had moved on to a vote. However, during that time, within this environment, there was a whole lot of disruption and noise going on. MP Genuis turned on his phone and started blasting sound through the mike, affecting interpreters and everybody here in this room. There was chatter. There was screaming coming from members. You can go back and look at the video if you want. That was all captured there within that disruption. Within that disruption, I did not hear a point of order from MP Lawrence. That's what I can tell you. I did not hear a point of order. I dealt with the point of order from MP Genuis, and I moved on to the vote.

What we're going to do now, and I'm so glad.... The members are in agreement, so we have unanimous consent to go back and vote.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Yes, we have unanimous consent, but I would still like to talk, just because it is a point of rule—you can check with the clerk—that a chair cannot remedy a point of privilege. Only the Speaker can.

So, we have brought this, and we are appreciative of the unanimous consent to go back and vote on clause 489. We say thank you to the chair for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

As is my obligation, I would still like to put on the record, at the earliest instance, the facts of my question of privilege. This is right out of the rules. Not only am I allowed, but I'm actually obligated to put those on the record.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay. Thank you, MP Lawrence.

In House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, 2017, I am just going to direct the members—and I am not going to read through all of this—to “Questions of Privilege in Committee” in chapter 20, on page 1060. It does spell out the rule, and everything is there for members.

That being said, now, members, if we could go to where we had unanimous consent—

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to speak on the matter of privilege. It's specifically to the section you were just citing.

If you read on, Mr. Chair, it says that the chair then has to determine “whether the question raised in fact relates to parliamentary privilege”, which you have not done. Then it says, “If the Chair determines that the question does relate to parliamentary privilege, the committee may then consider presenting a report on the question to the House.” Then it goes through what the report is supposed to contain.

So, a process has been started, which you have accepted. A matter of privilege is on the floor, and we need to follow the processes outlined in the very clause that you are citing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're going to suspend for a second.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're back.

House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, 2017, does say on page 154 that it allows the chair to rule. I did rule. My decision was challenged. It was sustained.

That speaks to MP Morantz.

Now I have MP Blaikie.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have one—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I have MP Blaikie on a point of order.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I've been ignored. I've been trying to talk for the last 10 minutes here, before Mr. Blaikie.

I want to raise my point of privilege. As per the rules, and I'll read you the rules here—