Evidence of meeting #15 for Finance in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Thank you, Mr. Leitão. Your speaking time is up.
We will now continue with Mr. Garon.
Mr. Garon, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to thank all of the witnesses for being here today. We are very grateful to them.
We have already begun a discussion on this topic. The government has probably stretched the definition of capital investment quite a bit.
On page 322 of the budget, the government refers to Singapore and the United Kingdom, which are said to have a similar approach, and to the Canadian provinces. I am thinking of the QIP, the Quebec Infrastructure Plan.
I will give you some examples and I would like to know if, outside of Canada, the following items would be considered investments.
On page 229 of the budget, there is mention of extending the early retirement program to Border Services officers. Is this an investment outside Canada?
You can answer yes or no, as I have several items to address.
Kristina Grinshpoon Director, Fiscal Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
We don’t have any details at this time, so we will be able to provide a written response to the committee.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Is the recruitment of military personnel considered an investment?
Director, Fiscal Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
My answer would be the same.
Director, Fiscal Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
I would still give you the same answer.
Bloc
Director, Fiscal Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
We will be able to provide the answers to the committee.
Bloc
Director, Fiscal Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Yes.
Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
This indicates that the definition of capital investments is very broad. In certain types of situations, this is not intuitive.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
On page 229, there is mention of recruiting military personnel. According to your initial approximation, this leads to a real accumulation of physical capital. Would this be the norm under generally accepted accounting principles?
Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
In this context, and as an accountant, I would find it incredibly difficult to include it in balance sheets.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Excellent.
That’s what I think. I understand why you are being cautious.
I have also consulted chartered accountants. According to them, an auditor would be struck off the professional register if he included these items in his balance sheet. In other words, he would not sign it.
I would now like to talk to you about infrastructure transfers.
Throughout the media and in all forums, the Minister of Finance and National Revenuehas claimed that $115 billion in new funding has been allocated to infrastructure. The provinces and Quebec were asking for $100 billion over ten years.
Here are our calculations regarding the new funding, not the funding that already existed in previous appropriations. Over five years, $9 billion will be allocated to infrastructure. This includes $5 billion for hospital construction. However, the Quebec government estimates that the total amount is $22 billion over ten years.
In the budget, how much is the new funding allocated to infrastructure?
Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
We have received a response from the Department of Finance on this specific question. Unfortunately, the data relating to infrastructure is confidential. I cannot share the details with you.
Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
The value is not high.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
If it is not high, that means it is far from reaching $115 billion.
Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Yes.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Are we closer to the amount calculated by Quebec or the Bloc Québécois? Are we closer to $9 billion or $115 billion?
Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
I cannot tell you, unless there are exceptional circumstances. In fact, my solicitor is here. I believe I must respect the confidentiality of the Department of Finance.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Absolutely.
Your answer shows that the Minister of Finance and National Revenue, as usual, is going around to all the television stations from coast to coast, and he is exaggerating again. The figures that Quebec is talking about and our calculations show that we are tens and tens of billions of dollars away from what is being announced.
We talked about transparency earlier. Since the Prime Minister took office, have you had any difficulty obtaining data from the Department of Finance?
When the Parliamentary Budget Officer’s Office requests data from the Department of Finance, how is the relationship between the two bodies?
Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
I think we have a good relationship with the Department of Finance. We have some concerns with other departments, but things are going well with the Department of Finance.