Finance Committee on Feb. 12th, 2026

[National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak]

I think ISC does a lot of good work, but there is also leakage to other groups of people. That needs to stop. That's for sure.

I have technicians beside me who are absolute experts, and we're in a dilemma because we're a few days away from program sunset. That's very worrisome for first nations.

Bram or Josh, would either of you like to add to that?

[Josh Gladstone, Assembly of First Nations]

Yes, thank you very much.

Mr. Schmale, I'd be very curious to hear where you're getting your numbers from.

Our understanding, based on the work we've done for housing through Indigenous Services Canada, is that we're looking at significant distinctions-based investments in housing since budget 2022, and for infrastructure since budget 2021. Those investments have made a difference. We're looking at over 7,000 projects completed and 8,000 new units. This is having a significant impact in first nations communities.

What we're facing right now is a funding cliff. This funding is about to expire. We're moving from about $700 million in targeted funding to almost no targeted funding within the next couple of years for housing, leaving us with about $166 million a year in core funding that could be used for first nations. That's less than $250,000 per first nation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Gladstone.

I'm going to have to end this round there.

I will continue now with Mr. Leitão.

No, it's Mr. Fragiskatos.

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

That's no problem.

Chief Woodhouse, Mr. Gladstone and Mr. Lerat, thank you very much for being here today.

Can you speak to me more, Chief, about housing? You made a comment at the tail end of your testimony about seeing some promise there, but you'd like to see some more things.

[National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak]

I'll refer to Josh right away, but I want to say this. We had a verbal commitment from the minister for a 10% target. They're saying, “target”, but we need to have an actual set-aside for first nations. We need to get to the start of that and make sure we're putting housing into first nations. Right now, we're being left behind. We're going to be left out of Build Canada Homes if it's not in writing and targeted specifically for first nations because of the way the provinces, especially.... The provinces would never, ever help first nations when it comes to housing, roads or anything else.

We need to make sure we're targeting specifically as we work towards reconciliation and our relationship with government as a whole, government to government.

Josh.

[Josh Gladstone]

Thank you.

I'll start by saying that we've done our work to understand what the housing and infrastructure gap is for first nations. The infrastructure gap, including housing, is now over $400 billion. For the housing gap itself, we're looking at over $135 billion. That includes capital operations and maintenance.

We need a whole-of-government approach to address the housing crisis in first nations in addition to enabling infrastructure that would help establish the changes we need to see in housing. In terms of the Build Canada Homes work being done right now, we know Build Canada Homes should be part of the solution to address the housing crisis in first nations, and we are hoping to see changes to the legislation that was tabled in order to ensure a few things.

First, there should be distinctions-based funding and supports included in the legislation, and objectives built in to ensure that Build Canada Homes addresses the first nations housing gap. Second, there should be legislated mandated spaces for first nations to participate at senior levels in governance, including on the board. Those are two very critical things, as we see it, for housing on the Build Canada Homes front.

There are other pieces to this puzzle. There's the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation's section 35 program. We haven't seen an increase in funding there since the 1990s, and that's a core piece of the Government of Canada's ecosystem for first nations housing. We've seen significant decreases in the number of units being delivered through that program over the last decade, and we're looking for commitments on that front as well.

There are a number of things we're looking for right now, on a distinctions basis, in order to address first nations housing. We're looking forward to seeing more from the government on that.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Thank very much.

Chief Woodhouse or Mr. Gladstone, I wonder if you could highlight the achievements that have been made over the past few years as a result of investments under the previous government as a way of showing that while enormous challenges obviously remain, there have been outcomes that have served communities.

You cited some numbers. Feel free to get into more specific details if you wish.

[Josh Gladstone]

Indigenous Services Canada has reported on this. There is information in the 2024 Auditor General's report. I would recommend it to anyone if they're looking for a clear understanding of the housing situation facing first nations. The lack of an indigenous housing strategy, a strategy to close the first nations housing gap, is one of the core findings of the Auditor General's report. There have been successes, I think, in the distinctions-based funding realm.

The reporting that we've seen from Indigenous Services Canada includes about 7,000 projects completed and ongoing for housing and about 8,000 new units completed and ongoing. This is since 2016. There are about 17,000 renovations and upgrades. We're looking at about 4,500 lots serviced. This is significant.

I would also point to some of the statistics coming out of the department around core housing needs. The data seems to show that the percentage of on-reserve households in overcrowded housing is staying about the same from 2016 to 2021. Similarly, the on-reserve housing considered adequate is also hovering at about the same rate between 2018-19 and 2023-24. These are numbers showing that there is some impact but not enough.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

In that vein, and I just have a few seconds left, I would take it that you are, based on comments that the organization has put forward, encouraged by the emphasis of the Canada Infrastructure Bank on further partnerships and more engagement in this realm of housing and infrastructure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

I was going to say yes or no, but that's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Mr. Garon, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

On behalf of the Bloc Québécois, I would like to offer you, Chief, my sincere condolences for the tragic events of the past few days. We were deeply affected. I felt it was important to convey that to you.

Are you able to quantify the housing needs of first nations in Quebec and elsewhere in the country? Are you in a position to do that?

[Josh Gladstone]

Yes, I believe we have those numbers. For Canada, housing needs in our “Closing the Infrastructure Gap” report include $135 billion for housing, including capital operations and maintenance funding. That would deliver about 155,000 new homes and 85,000 repairs that are needed across the country. I can certainly find Quebec-specific data, but I don't have that now.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

If it were possible to send us a written response, we would be interested.

With regard to the federal budget, in addition to certain negotiable requests, the Bloc Québécois had submitted non-negotiable requests to the government, including one concerning the Yänonhchia' housing project, which is being led by Grand Chief Lance Haymond. This project would have made it possible to build a large number of new homes for first nations.

I'd like to know what you think of this project and what is unique about it. We know that, under the Indian Act, the ownership structure makes public investment much more complicated, particularly on reserves.

I would like you to describe the Yänonhchia' project. Why is it important for first nations?

[Josh Gladstone]

I spoke with Chief Lance Haymond last week. I believe you may be speaking about his Yänonhchia’ financing model, which has been a really critical part of the broader question around financing first nations housing on reserve.

I know market housing is something that needs to be addressed and developed, especially for communities in Quebec, but also across the country. It is part of the AFN's approach to housing to support initiatives that ensure first nations have access to capital. Yänonhchia’ and other initiatives that allow first nations to access either private capital or loan guarantees that would enable them to do that are a critical part of the mix. We're looking to expand those opportunities in order to ensure that first nations have all of the tools at their disposal to address their housing needs.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

We invited the government to fund the project. We will invite the government again to fund the project. It's very important for us, and I know it is for you as well.

When we look at Bill C‑15 and the budget, we see that the government is putting a lot of emphasis on reducing red tape and bureaucracy. We hear a lot about that.

What about services for first nations, Jordan's principle, and so on?

Do you think this effort is just as strong for services to first nations as it is for all the other sectors covered by Bill C‑15?

[Bram Lerat, Senior Director, Assembly of First Nations]

The Red Tape Reduction Act is something that the Assembly of First Nations has flagged for a couple of reasons. One is that it's likely that different ministers will apply different standards to the benefit-risk analysis, leading to a fragmented treatment of their considerable powers of exemption.

There's a lack of an oversight mechanism that exists within the Red Tape Reduction Act. We see a prioritization of small businesses, while there are other glaring issues happening with Indigenous Services Canada that relate to red tape. For example, Jordan's principle right now has over 140,000 backlog requests, which is a result of Indigenous Services Canada's red tape, and that should be addressed immediately.

There are concerns, again, about small businesses, and first nations are looking forward to seeing how we can contribute to benefiting from reducing red tape in small businesses. It is worth noting, though, that there are children with special education needs and health needs right now who are suffering because of red tape in Indigenous Services Canada, and those issues should be focused on just as much measures to promote small businesses.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

If you had proposals to put forward to amend Bill C‑15 so that first nations and indigenous peoples could be put on an equal footing with the other areas it covers, in terms of reducing bureaucracy, what would that look like?

[Bram Lerat]

We can certainly follow up with a few more recommendations within our technical submission that is coming up here.

Again, we recognize that the Red Tape Reduction Act and the measures associated with it look more towards small businesses. However, I think when you take a look at Indigenous Services Canada as a whole and the increase of reporting requirements, increased programs and less control going to first nations.... We can come up with a number of recommendations and submit them to the committee. They take it from more of a social perspective as well to address some of those concerns that are affecting our children and the health of our first nations communities across the country.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Garon.

On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank our witnesses.

We will briefly suspend while we change over for the final panel of our meeting today.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

I call the meeting back to order.

Colleagues, we are going to resume the meeting for the final half an hour of today's discussion on Bill C-15.

I'm delighted to be able to welcome David Chartrand, the president of the National Government of the Red River Métis of the Manitoba Métis Federation. He is joined by Sarah Perrin, who is a policy analyst.

Mr. Chartrand, you have five minutes for opening remarks.

[David Chartrand, President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation]

Thank you very much for that.

First, I do apologize; I have a chest cold. I have Sarah sitting beside me, so if my voice goes, I'll pass her the speech.

Before I begin, I want to offer my heartfelt condolences to the families and loved ones from Tumbler Ridge, Kitigan Zibi and Mistissini who have been facing unthinkable losses this week. We share in their sorrow.

Thank you to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance for inviting me to bring remarks on behalf of the Manitoba Métis Federation, the national government of the Red River Métis.

My name is David Chartrand. I have been elected eight times since 1997 to serve the Red River Métis citizens as their president. In that time, I have seen many federal budgets. Each has represented the economic reality of their moment in time. The hard reality of this moment has dictated the government's budget for 2026. The international order has moved away from co-operation amongst our traditional allies. Make no mistake: The need to respond and build certainty for our domestic security is essential. As with the legislation on major projects, my government is prepared to support our federal partners in this budget, but I cannot forget about the social realities of my people.

I am pleased to see that the balance of the urban, rural and northern housing program will be disbursed. However, the wait times on these allocations are long. We have completed our part of the work. We are shovel-ready on multiple housing projects. We are ready to build. We are waiting for Canada. MMF is already a proven success in housing. More than 1,469 Red River Métis families now own their own homes through the first-time homebuyer program. As a result, our citizens have infused $362 million into the economy. This is an extraordinary result over the past five years. In total, MMF manages 49 residential properties with a total of 152 units of affordable housing, including transitional housing units. This is MMF in action, helping our citizens confront the cost of living crisis today so that they will have an asset to carry them into the future.

The chair of this committee knows only too well the MMF investments into our community. Investments we have made in early learning and childhood education infrastructure have provided opportunities for parents to find their place in the economy, knowing their children have safe spaces to thrive. This is on top of the job creation that those investments create. It has also allowed us to contribute to the experience of the Ukrainian newcomer community in Manitoba, who understand only too well what a change in the international order has done.

MMF created the Ukrainian evacuee child care cohort to provide ELCC education opportunities for 25 Ukrainian citizens. The newcomers started their training in fall 2023, and by June 2025 were graduating from the program. All are now employed by my government. The success of this program has meant that a cohort of 30 Ukrainian students began their studies in April 2025. It is part of MMF ELCC's drive to grow the child care workforce and fill those necessary roles.

The success of our programs in housing and early learning and child care has been based on long-term agreements with Canada, which has allowed my government to make decisions based on long-term vision and planning. The nation-to-nation and government-to-government relationship is a proven model of success that supports this, and must be honoured regardless of who forms government. However, the future uncertainty of programs like urban programming for indigenous peoples carries risks for our youth. It takes away our ability to make the same long-term strategic decisions.

Additionally, we have 2,600 of our children in university. We provide $5,000 per year towards the costs of support, but each year the costs of this education will add up to $20,000 to $30,000 annually per student. This equates to about $78 million for the 2,600 students that we have to pay. Let me remind you that the statistics will show that the Métis students grow up in low-income households. Our people's forced history of going without means this is unattainable for our youth, or it will result in a heavy debt burden for them. We are still coping with the trauma of the sixties scoop, when thousands of our children were taken away. This destroyed families and communities. Our young people are still growing up with the impacts of generational poverty. Breaking the cycle is heavily dependent on their success in education. This cycle is resulting in our people being less visible in positions of influence in government, business and other careers.

We have made every effort to take ourselves through these cycles, but we need the tools to get our children where they need to go. We support space in the budget for major projects, in particular, the view that funding be tied to results, but the investments must lead to opportunities in education to build a skilled workforce. Our youth must have access to programming to provide them with the best start in life.

We have a responsibility to our young people. The time for investment is now—I mean now—so they will have the skills to participate in nation-building projects.

Following the federal promise to enact Métis-specific health legislation, we remain stuck in the same pattern of being caught in jurisdictional disputes between the provincial and federal governments. Too many of our people have died while waiting to be provided with the same services as any other Canadian taxpayer.

Do not forget that we are still waiting for Canada to follow through with our treaty, which I understand had first reading this morning, and for Canada to settle our land claim in section 31 of the Manitoba Act, 1870.

Concluding, these will ensure that we're at the national and international tables and not on anybody's menu.

Your partners in Confederation have been waiting 156 years for this day. I'm not here to ask for handouts or a hand-up. If you want to put something in our hands, give us a shovel, because Red River Métis are ready to do our part to continue to build this country. We ask for Canada to match our sense of urgency at this critical moment.

I welcome your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you so much, President Chartrand.

We will begin with Mr. Schmale for six minutes.