Evidence of meeting #26 for Finance in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, President Chartrand, for joining us today.
Congratulations, as I hear your ways and means motion passed this morning in Parliament. It's the first step to your treaty.
I want to talk a bit about that, but you did mention, I believe the wording was, the “Métis-specific health” program.
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
Yes.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
How do you see that working with the methods already in place?
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
Firstly, on that particular segment, throughout our existence as a people in western Canada, when it came to health issues—or any program in particular, but health has been a serious one for us in the last while—governments have been debating who's responsible to provide services. Both the provincial and federal governments keep going back and forth saying, “No, it's your responsibility,” and “No, it's yours.” I say that both governments still take our taxes without hesitation, but both of them are arguing who's going to serve us.
We did a study which showed that we have the worst health care than anybody else. We have surpassed first nations for chronic illnesses already. We have more people dying younger than everybody else, yet nobody seems to bring a solution forward.
The previous government did make a commitment that there would be Métis-specific legislation for Métis health, because we don't have one. Right now, there's one for first nations, and there's one for Inuit, but not for us. Again, that's not an anomaly. Always, the Métis are left out.
A promise was made. We did have some discussions. I brought in some resolutions that would establish the system and I believe save the taxpayer costs.
I'll give you an example. We create our own solutions because we have no choice and we're far behind what we need. I knew that given the high chronic illness we have, obviously that tells us we're using the most prescriptions. Therefore, we started building pharmacies on our own. We now have three pharmacies, and with that revenue, I take the profits and give free medicine to my citizens who are 55 and older. It's saving lives, as we speak. Many have shed tears because of that. They couldn't afford their medicine. Some took treaty because they couldn't afford their medicine and they needed a particular medicine to survive.
Right now, I see that Canada has to come to terms with setting or seguing into how that program could be established. I've given offers that I believe are cost-efficient, measurable and would make common sense for the good.
One thing Canada or the province cannot deny us is that I'm still going to use hospitals. You can't stop me there. The problem is that's where the high costs are. If we start early enough, then we won't have these high costs that we're facing in this country.
I was at the hospital the other day to visit my nephew. I walked into the St. Boniface Hospital. It was at nine o'clock at night. As soon as I landed from Ottawa, I went straight to the hospital. There had to be 75 people sitting there waiting for a doctor. The hallways were full of beds everywhere. I couldn't believe what I was seeing with my own eyes.
Clearly, there's a massive shortfall that's happening and more is needed.
From our perspective, we're not just saying, “Give us health care, the same as the first nations. Give us the same as the Inuit.” We're saying, “No, no. We'll come with a very practically oriented solution.”
I'm a taxpayer like anybody else in this room, and so are my people. We'll come with a very practical plan of how we start addressing the health crisis my people face.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
I don't know if I'll get to the treaty questions, but in a few days—
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
I'm going to see you on Tuesday. Ask me on Tuesday or Wednesday.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
Yes, in a few days we'll chat more.
Let's talk more about this. You mentioned that Métis peoples are dying at a younger age. Is that compared to indigenous people in general or everybody?
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
It's everybody, including indigenous people.
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
Again, Jamie, the number one issue that we're finding—to make the result more practical or measurable—is that what happens to our people is based on their pensions. They're living on a pension and that's all they have. What you find is that they have options. Many of them are sick with all these chronic illnesses that have now hit them. You find that they have choices now: whether they pay the hydro bill, buy their food to survive or pay the rent. An ambulance bill will take $200 to $400 off of them. If they go twice, they're starving. They have the choice to either buy food or pay an ambulance bill. The next time, the ambulance doesn't want to go there because they have a debt owing. It becomes a very scary position for them.
One of the studies showed that the number one issue is they can't afford their medicine. That's the number one reason that they're dying young—sooner than everybody else. Again, it's because we're on our own. There's no program for us to deal with the issue.
The economies of scale that we're in today were forced historically back to us. For example, they chased us off our land. We owned Winnipeg, Portage la Prairie and Neepawa.. That was our land and we can't take it back now. It's owned by farmers, government and individuals.
What happened was our economy really hit us back. We're fighting to try to get back into the economy and to try to take care of ourselves, but we need that tool. We need some of our taxes back. Let's put it that way, to be frank.
Conservative
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
The cost of living obviously is impacting many of your members. You mentioned groceries. People are choosing between heating their homes, eating or getting health care services in general.
You've probably seen the many reports that have come out. Food bank usage is at two million people a month. This has been a steady rise to get to this point.
Are the economic challenges that we seem to be facing here in Canada as a whole hurting your members, too? I'm sure the inflation crisis that we're having impacts your members.
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
Clearly, Jamie, the best way to answer that is this: When you look at the segment of 1,469 people buying their houses in the last five years, that shows me there are 1,469 people working. Otherwise, they would never get a mortgage.
Clearly, our traditional economy has been—
Liberal
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
I'll answer this question when somebody next asks me a question. I'll share it because it's a very important question he asked and I want to make sure I share it.
Liberal
Liberal
Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Could you continue on with what you were explaining? It is important.
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
It is important.
We seem to be doing not too badly in the urban environments. Our people are finding jobs. Whatever kind of job they can get their hands on, they're getting them. Our people have very entrepreneurial backgrounds.
However, we're seeing that our traditional economy has been completely quashed. We used to be big in the forest industry, in commercial fishing, in trapping and in tourism. All of that is gone. The last edge of the fishing is still surviving right now. If you see on the east coast how important the fishing is to their existence, the same happens to us.
In rural Manitoba, where I used to have maybe 30% unemployed in our villages, it's the opposite. I have 70% unemployed. It's causing me grave concern as president. In the future, what does that mean? What's going to happen?
These people become caught up in the social welfare system. They may never leave and they may just give up.
They can't give up. The young people cannot give up on hope. In order to do that, you have to give them something in return.
All of this was taken from us and nothing has ever come back to replace it. Nothing. No government has had a Métis-specific economic plan in this country.
From our perspective, we're saying that we have the answers. We just need you to look at the investment. We're going to pay taxes back anyway. You're going to get back your money from us. We're going to help you with the challenges you face of filling the gaps in these businesses that exist that need people to fill them.
We don't have to shop overseas. You can come shop in my communities, but give me the tools to get them ready.
Liberal
Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Absolutely.
As you pointed out in your introductory remarks, there are going to be major projects going on in Canada and in Manitoba.
Would you agree that a portion of the jobs that will be generated by those major projects should be assigned to those local communities so that they can provide the employment opportunities? At the same time, the companies that will develop those things need labour, so it could be some sort of an arrangement with communities to make sure that they employ local people.
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
There have been examples of that with the government at this point in time, and I hope future governments will take that as nation-to-nation and government-to-government, because it's measurable. It's the distinct services of investments, and then you can measure that success. However, if you did all indigenous people, there's no way you could properly measure it. If you do distinctly first nations, Métis and Inuit, then you can measure it.
Let me say this about capital projects. They're a ways from now. They're not going to happen tomorrow morning. We have that now. How long is that going to take before the project first kicks in? Then there's the preparation to get there.
I'll give you an example of a change in this country that nobody's talked about yet. In Manitoba, our premier, being a first nations premier in Canada for the first time, created a new model of relationship with Manitoba Hydro, one of the biggest companies we have in our province, and we are now in charge of building wind power.
How they've designed it is a complete reversal of the old way. Now, indigenous governments are the only ones that can bid on this 600 megawatts, and we are allowed up to 200 megawatts, which I'm bidding on right now, but we must be 51% owners. We've met with 14 international and national companies, and we've chosen our partner already, but we will be owners of this hydro power. It shows you a completely different transition.
Take Enbridge, for example; I have a very good relationship with Enbridge. They couldn't participate, because their stakeholders do not let them go outside of being the full majority owner. That's an example of how industry is caught off guard on this one.
It's the first kind in Canada, and I hope there will be more of them.
When national projects do come, I don't want us to be just the ones with the shovels and the brooms. I want us to be up in management. We want a different perspective. We want to own our construction companies. We have over 900 businesses in Manitoba registered right now.
Regarding the procurement program, I've said to every member here, including Jamie, that the issue about procurement is very clear. It costs Canada nothing when you do these national projects or big projects. We have a 5% procurement program, which I've been fighting for, for over 20 years. We finally see it working, and I swear it has changed lives, changed businesses and increased their strength in businesses, and all the companies that win these bids have to do is guarantee us 5%.
SkyAlyne won an $11.2-billion agreement. They have to give us 5% of a certain segment of it but not the capital purchases. At the end of the day, there are going to be jobs, there are going to be opportunities and there's going to be management. There are all kinds of different fields we'll get into. That 5% procurement changed the economic venture overnight and cost Canada not a penny.
Liberal
Carlos Leitão Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Thank you for mentioning that, because one of the models I have in mind is the Cree Nation in northern Quebec and the Paix des Braves agreement they reached 50 years ago, which gives them their own dedicated source of revenue, and with that, you can achieve major progress.
I would certainly support such a model.
I see that my time is almost up.
Regarding access to capital, there's that model, but are there other ways in which the federal government could assist in providing guarantees and some ways to make sure your businesses have access to capital?
President, National Government of the Red River Métis, Manitoba Métis Federation
It will be very brief. I know I talk long, but I try to explain myself while I'm talking.
For the investment in hydro, that 200 megawatts we're bidding on is going to cost $500 million to build those 38 towers. That shows you that we need some capital loans or something. It's the longevity of how you get them. Is it hard to get it? Is it easy to get it? This is a guaranteed initiative, but am I going to have a hard time getting the loan?
