Evidence of meeting #30 for Finance in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pbo.
A video is available from Parliament.
Deputy Director, Partnership, Policy and Analysis, FINTRAC, As an Individual
If Parliament wants me to follow these issues and advise them, that's what I'll do.
As you said in the beginning of your turn, analyzing budgets and programs leads to these kinds of solutions. If grants and contributions aren't generating a return—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Thank you, Ms. Ryan. You may have an opportunity to complete your answer in another round.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Thank you, Mr. Leitão.
Mr. Garon, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
First off, Ms. Ryan, thank you for joining us today.
I'd also like to take a few seconds to thank the outgoing Parliamentary Budget Officer, Mr. Jacques, and his entire team. We often forget the Parliamentary Budget Officer is supported by a gigantic team. Actually, it's a small team, too small a team, but it's made up of very competent people. I'd like to take a second to thank them and to tell them how grateful we are for their work.
As you know, we've asked many questions about the appointment process. That's on the record. The Conservatives asked questions, as did we. We asked that Mr. Jacques be reappointed. Just to be clear, this had nothing to do with the quality of your candidacy, your résumé and your experience. I think that needs to be said. Looking at your résumé, there's no doubt you're highly qualified for the position. So is Mr. Jacques.
As you know, the Prime Minister himself appointed Mr. Jacques. He thought he was very competent, that he was the right person for the job. However, a few weeks later, here in committee, the Minister of Finance and National Revenue began undermining his credibility. In fact, he refused to say if he thought he was qualified for the job. We were told to invite Kevin Page to testify with him. Was that because the Parliamentary Budget Officer's word had apparently no value?
How do we know that two weeks after your nomination the Prime Minister will still find you competent?
Deputy Director, Partnership, Policy and Analysis, FINTRAC, As an Individual
I'll start by reasserting my utmost respect for Jason Jacques, Yves Giroux and Kevin Page, who built the office.
Regarding independent analysis, and especially if government rejects the bureau's advice and analysis if they don't align with its own, my office would rely largely on transparency to solve these issues. Thanks to decades of work, I have a huge network of economists both in Canada and abroad. I look forward to presenting them with the office's forecasts and analysis to foster a good public debate in the event there's a divergence of analysis. This would be done to support you and keep these issues on the front burner.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Thank you very much, Ms. Ryan.
You said something I found very interesting. You said you'd be a one-term Parliamentary Budget Officer, that you would not be seeking a second term. That got me thinking.
You've spent a lot of time within the machinery of government, under many governments and different political parties. Your skills, loyalty and integrity were never questioned.
As the Parliamentary Budget Officer, you may be called upon to criticize government policies. Will you commit not to work for the federal government after your term?
Deputy Director, Partnership, Policy and Analysis, FINTRAC, As an Individual
I've never given that question any thought.
Deputy Director, Partnership, Policy and Analysis, FINTRAC, As an Individual
I can reflect on this and get back to you.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
You can indeed provide us with a written answer later. I think it's a yes or no answer. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.
Deputy Director, Partnership, Policy and Analysis, FINTRAC, As an Individual
No.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
However, since you broached the subject, I think it's relevant.
We've read the OECD report on the institution that is the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer. The office's work was recognized, although the OECD criticized the fact that the position was vacant, undermining the office's integrity.
Why do you think a government would want to replace the Parliamentary Budget Officer, in this case Mr. Jacques, if he did such a great job? When someone does a good job, you tend to keep them. Isn't that how it works in the public service?
Deputy Director, Partnership, Policy and Analysis, FINTRAC, As an Individual
I think that's a question you should ask the government.
I participated in a public competition based on merit. I can speak to my own application, but—
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
I understand. I won't embarrass you anymore with my question.
The last few parliamentary budget officers were in the media a lot, acted as communicators and interacted a great deal with the public. There was Mr. Fréchette and Mr. Page. The last two parliamentary budget officers acted as communicators to explain to the public the issues related to certain government policies.
How do you see your role, your relationship with the general public?
Deputy Director, Partnership, Policy and Analysis, FINTRAC, As an Individual
That's a great question.
My priority is being in Parliament, but I think it's also important that the public understands the analysis. I don't see an issue with that role. I look forward to defending our analysis before Parliament and, if needed, in the media.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
I'll ask you one last quick question, since I have only 25 seconds left.
While talking about the economy during question period today, the Minister of Transport said we were heading towards an economic apocalypse. What do you make of that kind of language?
Deputy Director, Partnership, Policy and Analysis, FINTRAC, As an Individual
I'll do my best to avoid using adjectives. I'll leave that to you. Instead, I'll provide you with analysis, scenarios and the state of the situation so that you can make your own judgment on the various circumstances.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Thank you, Mr. Garon.
Mr. Lefebvre, you have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Ryan, thank you for joining us this afternoon.
I too would like to start by saying a few words about Mr. Jason Jacques, who has done a tremendous job over the last year or months as the Parliamentary Budget Officer.
The Parliamentary Budget Officer is defined as someone who's neutral, non-partisan and independent. Moreover, the PBO must help senators and MPs in their work. Over the last few months, Mr. Jacques did a fantastic job to deliver on this with great skill.
To follow up on what my colleague just said, whether it's someone in the private sector or, for example, MP political staffers, when you have someone competent who meets the expected criteria, you keep them. Therefore, you'll understand, Madam Chair, that I was a bit surprised when the government decided not to renew Mr. Jason Jacques for another term. Maybe it's because he showed some courage—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Mr. Lefebvre, your time should be used to ask the witness questions, not to discuss other topics. According to the Standing Orders, it's normal to—
Conservative
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Mr. Jacques showed courage by speaking out against a certain management style regarding budget targets that had been dropped.
Are you going to show the same courage when, for example, the government removes the fiscal anchors considered catastrophic for the country's public finances? Will you also have the courage to speak up?
