Finance Committee on May 25th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much.

To conclude this hour, I give the floor to Mr. Garon for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Kershaw, I understand your proposal. Since I don't have much time, I don't want you selling it to me a second time. I just want to ask about a principle.

People have taken the current old age security program rules into account when planning their retirement. Those rules were part of their planning. Do you think that changing them immediately would be unfair to those who are retiring? Should your proposal apply to future generations of seniors? My question is about the principle.

[Dr. Paul Kershaw]

Clearly, the polling, including in Quebec, doesn't support that idea. People, including retirees, are supportive and open to making the change. I don't think that principle should get in the way.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

All right.

Gentlemen from the Montreal Economic Institute, I'd like to ask you about the sovereign wealth fund.

Maybe it's just a semantics issue, but shouldn't a sovereign wealth fund have funds?

[Renaud Brossard]

In general, yes. This type of fund essentially draws on budget surpluses and specific revenue streams. In this case, it would essentially be financed through borrowing, or at least, by taking on new debt that we wouldn't otherwise have incurred.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

All right. So there aren't really any revenue streams. It's a “fund without funds”, as La Presse put it today.

Mr. Laurin, I'll end with you.

You speak with economists and academics in the business sector, where you're well established. Before the Prime Minister announced this sovereign wealth fund, which will eventually be funded through interest-bearing debt, did anyone come to you and say that there was a need for such a fund? Was there an existing demand? Did this come from business circles?

Who was calling for this, before the Prime Minister and Minister Champagne came up with it? Can we have a list? If one exists, can you submit it to the committee?

[Alexandre Laurin]

No, I don't exactly have a list, but—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Is that because it doesn't exist?

[Alexandre Laurin]

Investors made the request. There include institutional investors, such as pension plans. It is, in fact, something they have asked for. First, they asked for projects in which they could invest. Now that those projects exist, if the government participates alongside them, it will, of course, reduce risk and make those projects more profitable—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

It makes them less risky.

[Alexandre Laurin]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Laurin and Mr. Garon. We have to stop here.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses.

We're going to suspend the meeting before welcoming the next group of witnesses. We'll be back at exactly 5:50 p.m. in order to have a bit more time.

Thank you, everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Welcome back, colleagues. We will resume the meeting.

I would like to welcome our next panel of witnesses.

From the Canadian Bankers Association, we have Alex Ciappara, vice-president and head economist, financial stability and banking policy. He is joined by Hartland Elcock, assistant general counsel and vice-president. From the Canadian Bitcoin Consortium, we have Koleya Karringten, executive director. From Canadian Web3 Council, we have Morva Rohani, executive director. From Wealthsimple Investment Inc., we have Jessica Oliver, head, government and regulatory relations.

Welcome, and thank you for joining us.

I would like to remind participants of the following points before we begin. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating via video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

I would like to remind all of our witnesses that committee members may ask questions in either French or English. If you will need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece and select the listening channel you need in advance in order to take full advantage of the time allotted for questions and answers.

I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. All virtual witnesses have conducted a mandatory witness onboarding test.

Now, each of you will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

We will begin with the Canadian Bankers Association, please.

[Alex Ciappara, Vice-President and Head Economist, Financial Stability and Banking Policy, Canadian Bankers Association]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon and thank you for the invitation to address the committee's study on pre-budget consultations in advance of the 2026 budget.

My name is Alex Ciappara, vice-president and head economist of the Canadian Bankers Association. I'm joined by Hartland Elcock, assistant general counsel and vice-president.

The CBA is the voice of more than 60 domestic and foreign banks operating in Canada. It advocates for public policies that contribute to a sound, thriving banking system to ensure Canadians can achieve their financial goals. Canadian households, businesses, employees, governments and shareholders—a significant portion of whom are Canadians—all have a stake in a growing, vibrant banking sector. Banks help families buy a home and save for retirement. They help small businesses grow and thrive while providing economic benefits to all Canadians today and into the future.

For instance, Canadian banks have approved $1.7 trillion in residential mortgages and an additional $1.9 trillion in business credit. Banks employ close to 300,000 Canadians and contribute $74 billion to Canada's economy. Lastly, they have paid $16 billion in taxes to all levels of government in Canada and $29 billion in dividend income to investors in 2025. It is from this perspective that we come to you today as partners in building, protecting and empowering Canada for Canadians.

Our pre-budget submission makes six recommendations that address these objectives. For instance, to help Canadians build, our recommendations regarding prudential regulation and tax reform will promote productivity growth in Canada. Lagging productivity levels risk wage stagnation, put pressure on public services, increase production costs and diminish global competitiveness. Adjusting the prudential capital framework will enable banks to flow even more capital to individuals and businesses to support jobs and economic growth domestically and to compete effectively internationally.

Furthermore, we recommend that the government action its commitment to review the corporate tax system, including reviewing the removal of sector-specific taxes, such as those on the financial sector.

To help protect Canadians, our recommendations address fraud, scams, money laundering and terrorist financing. The CBA has been a leader in bringing together approximately 50 public and private partners, including regulators, financial institutions, telecommunications providers, law enforcement and digital platforms, in forming the Canadian anti-scam coalition to advance coordinated education, awareness and prevention initiatives.

We believe the federal government's national anti-fraud strategy, announced in budget 2025, is a critical step toward a unified cross-sectoral response. In addition, we believe the government must implement an income-verification solution to address mortgage fraud.

Similarly, we believe Canada's AML and ATF framework must continue to evolve into a fit-for-purpose framework that more effectively targets money laundering and terrorist financing. The financial crime environment is rapidly changing. Criminal networks are increasingly sophisticated. Technology is advancing and geopolitical dynamics are fluid. The AML and ATF regime must be ready to respond to these challenges. This is why we are supportive of the government's announcement regarding the establishment of the financial crimes agency. We have additional ideas to improve the system.

Lastly, to empower Canadians, our recommendations include better ways to promote competition and measures to reduce internal trade barriers. We believe budget 2025's announcement to prohibit fees on investment and registered account transfers across institutions and to require timely transfers of investment funds must apply to all plan providers so that it benefits all Canadians. In order to do this, the Income Tax Act must be leveraged to implement this prohibition so that it applies to all financial institutions and helps all Canadians.

Similarly, Canadians right across this country can benefit from the reduction of internal trade barriers. The IMF estimates that such barriers are equivalent to an average annual tariff of 9%. From a financial sector perspective, this means eliminating duplicative, overlapping or fragmented requirements in favour of harmonized frameworks that promote clear, consistent rules nationwide and streamline compliance, particularly in the areas of AML and ATF, privacy, market conduct of payment service providers and over-the-counter derivatives.

In conclusion, the CBA appreciates the opportunity to contribute to the committee's study on pre-budget consultations for the 2026 budget to help build, protect and empower Canadians. We look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Mr. Ciappara.

I might just take a moment to salute the CBA's anti-fraud and anti-scam work. Thank you for doing that.

[Alex Ciappara]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

I would now like to invite Ms. Karringten, from the Canadian Bitcoin Consortium, to give her opening remarks.

[Koleya Karringten, Executive Director, Canadian Bitcoin Consortium]

Ms. Chair, honourable members of the committee, according to the Canadian anti-fraud centre's latest annual report, crypto ATMs account for only 2.2% of the reported fraud losses in Canada. These risks are real and they must be addressed, but the numbers show that a blanket prohibition may not be the most targeted or effective response.

My name is Koleya Karringten. I'm the executive director for the Canadian Bitcoin Consortium. The consortium is the largest national industry association representing responsible participants across Canada's digital asset sector, including operators, technology providers and compliance-focused businesses. We engage regularly with federal and provincial governments, including through Finance Canada's advisory committee on money laundering and terrorist financing and broader economic policy forums.

I'd like to acknowledge the Government of Canada's continued focus on strengthening Canadian integrity and protecting Canadians from fraud. Those are objectives that we share, and we support effective, enforceable policy that improves oversight and reduces harm.

The spring economic update also highlights the growing relevance of digital assets, including stablecoins. This is an important development. Stablecoins are increasingly being considered globally as part of modern payment infrastructure, with implications for settlement efficiency, cross-border transactions and financial innovation.

As Canada considers its approach, there is an opportunity to ensure that policy supports both financial stability and economic competitiveness. Jurisdictions such as the United States, the United Kingdom and the European Union are actively developing regulatory frameworks that bring stablecoin activity into supervised environments. Maintaining alignment with these developments would be an important way to ensure Canada remains a competitive and credible financial jurisdiction.

From our perspective, the principle is straightforward: Where activity is brought within clear regulatory frameworks, it becomes transparent, more observable and more enforceable. Where it is pushed outside of those frameworks, visibility and control are reduced.

That same principle applies to the committee's consideration of crypto ATMs. We are concerned that a blanket prohibition may not achieve the intended policy outcome but may, instead, reduce visibility for regulators and law enforcement. Where compliant operators are removed, activity does not disappear. It shifts to less transparent channels with fewer reporting obligations and fewer points of intervention.

Australia shows what targeted regulation can look like. In 2025, AUSTRAC introduced strict new conditions for crypto ATM operators, including transaction caps, mandatory KYC, and independent audits. We know what this looks like because Australia did it just months ago, and it's already delivering better oversight and stronger protections.

In that context, the policy objective should be to retain and strengthen oversight within the system rather than displace it. Responsible operators today already apply meaningful safeguards. These include full identity verification for transactions, transaction monitoring, blockchain analytics, fraud detection measures and structured reporting aligned with FINTRAC's requirements. In practice, this allows certain forms of activity to be traceable, reportable and actionable from an enforcement perspective.

A blanket prohibition would remove that layer of visibility while also impacting Canadian small businesses, including independent retailers who host these machines. Our recommendation is, therefore, focused on being practical. The consortium urges this committee to recommend against a blanket ban on crypto ATMs in favour of a mandatory national compliance standard with a reasonable transition period for certified operators. This standard could include robust KYC, transaction limits, fraud prevention controls, licensing requirements and stronger enforcement tools.

The consortium stands ready to support the work immediately. We can provide technical input, share compliance practices and contribute to informed policy development alongside Finance Canada and FINTRAC.

Ms. Chair and members of the committee, our objective is aligned with yours. Effective policy should reduce harm while preserving visibility, enforceability and confidence in the system. With the right approach, Canada can achieve this balance while remaining competitive in a rapidly evolving financial landscape.

Thank you for your time. We'd be pleased to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Ms. Karringten.

We will proceed now with Ms. Rohani for five minutes, please.

[Morva Rohani, Executive Director, Canadian Web3 Council]

Good evening, Chair, vice-chairs and honourable members. Thank you for the invitation to appear today.

I'm Morva Rohani and I'm the executive director of the Canadian Web3 Council. We represent companies building digital finance and payment technologies in more than 190 countries, and they're all committed to responsible innovation in Canada.

We support the government's efforts to protect Canada's economic sovereignty and to position Canada for long-term growth. Stablecoins are an important part of that effort.

I want to start with a definition of “stablecoins”. They're digital money designed to hold a steady value, typically one dollar. They allow people and businesses to send payments faster and more cheaply than traditional methods. Think of them as digital cash that moves instantly around the world.

The problem is that Canadians are using American digital dollars. Right now, 98% of the $350 billion in stablecoins worldwide are U.S. dollars. When Canadians use these American stablecoins, their money backs U.S. government debt instead of Canadian government debt. This weakens our economy.

According to the FCAC, 4% of Canadian adults already hold stablecoins. Most of those are likely denominated in U.S. dollars. The opportunity here is that a trusted and robust Canadian dollar stablecoin system can strengthen our economy. It can deliver three benefits.

First, it lowers costs for businesses and consumers. Stablecoins move money faster and more cheaply than traditional banking, helping us to boost productivity.

Second, it creates stronger demand for Canadian government bonds. Stablecoin issuers must hold reserves to back their digital dollars. If those reserves are Canadian treasuries, it creates steady demand for our government debt.

Third, it enables easier trade with Europe and Asia. Canadian dollar stablecoins connected to global payment systems can help businesses trade with partners beyond the United States.

Unclear rules, however, are holding Canada back. Right now, different regulators treat stablecoins differently. Some see them as payment methods. Others see them as investments. Others see them as commodities. This confusion makes it harder for Canadian companies to build here.

Meanwhile, the U.K. and the EU have clearer rules. The U.S. is moving very quickly. If Canada doesn't act, our entrepreneurs will build elsewhere and Canadians will keep using American stablecoins.

Here today, we want to discuss three of our recommendations.

First, create clear and consistent rules for stablecoins across all Canadian laws. Different laws currently treat stablecoins differently, creating confusion for businesses and tax complexity for users. We recommend that Canada clearly define stablecoins as payment instruments under federal law. This would reduce red tape, make Canada more competitive and increase demand for Canadian government bonds. The U.K. and the EU already treat stablecoins this way. Canada has to keep pace with these economies.

Second, allow stablecoin providers to offer reward programs. Current rules prevent stablecoin issuers from offering rewards like cash back or loyalty points, but credit card companies do this every day. This puts Canadian stablecoin providers at a disadvantage against foreign credit card networks and American stablecoin issuers.

The U.S. CLARITY Act, which allows for stablecoins to offer reward programs, is advancing to the Senate. The White House is supporting it. If it becomes law, it would be structurally more attractive for Canadians to use and hold U.S. stablecoins. We recommend narrowing the restriction on interest and yield payments so that Canadian stablecoins can compete fairly. This will encourage more Canadians to use Canadian dollar stablecoins instead of American alternatives.

Third, we recommend that we work with other countries to recognize each other's rules. Canadian stablecoin issuers want to serve customers in Europe and Asia. Foreign issuers want to serve Canadians. If each country requires completely different compliance, it becomes too expensive and complicated.

We recommend that Canada work with key trading partners to recognize equivalent regulations. Having mutual recognition on stablecoins with other countries will let Canadian companies do business more easily overseas while ensuring that foreign providers meet Canadian standards.

The result of that would be a larger market for Canadian dollar stablecoins, supporting trade diversification and strengthening our dollar's role in global payments.

To close, I would just say that we have an opportunity to lead here. A trusted Canadian dollar stablecoin can lower costs for businesses, strengthen demand for Canadian government bonds and support trade with Europe and Asia. Together, these outcomes would protect our economic sovereignty, but we have to act quickly. If we delay, entrepreneurs will build their companies elsewhere and Canadians will keep using American stablecoins. Our economy will be weaker for it.

Thank you so much. I welcome your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Ms. Rohani.

We will now hear from Ms. Oliver from Wealthsimple Investment Inc.

[Jessica Oliver, Head, Government and Regulatory Relations, Wealthsimple Investment Inc.]

Thank you.

I'd like to thank the committee for inviting me to appear again.

Wealthsimple is Canada's leading financial innovator. We serve more than four million Canadians and we hold $150 billion in assets on their behalf. More than one in five Canadians aged 18 to 40 use Wealthsimple, and that reach gives us insight into a generation that policy-makers are trying to reach and who are very present in the issues that this committee considers.

Several reforms are now within reach. These reforms would give Canadians genuine control over their money through the ability to move their money where they want, when they want, without penalty or delay, as well as give them control over their financial data, with the ability to have a full picture of their financial situation and the ability to consider options to improve decision-making.

I'll touch on three options raised in our pre-budget submission: a ban on investment account transfer fees, a real-time payment rail and an open banking framework. These are interconnected. They are standards and infrastructure that exist in every peer country, countries that also care about stability, security and productivity.

The most urgent of these, in our view, are account transfer fees.

How much should it cost for a Canadian to move their savings from one provider to a better one? The industry's answer at the moment is $150 per account. Wealthsimple's answer is zero. We absorb the $2.20 it costs us to process an outgoing transfer.

This is what it means in practice for a 24-year-old earning an average wage who's done the right things. She has opened a TFSA, an RRSP and an FHSA, and she saves diligently. She finds a provider that better suits her needs and decides to move her accounts. It costs $150 to transfer a single account, which is more than 2% of the average TFSA balance at that age. She's charged $450 in total to switch over, and if her former institution is in no hurry, she may wait months for that money to arrive.

Last year, 28% of inbound transfers to Wealthsimple took longer than 20 business days to settle. The slowest 10% took more than five months. Shopping around and changing financial providers is a fundamentally optimistic decision. It means you believe there is something better. That inexplicably slow and expensive process erodes trust and breeds cynicism.

Since budget 2025 announced a ban on these fees, Wealthsimple clients alone have been charged nearly $50 million by other institutions, and we estimate that Canadians are paying more than $1 million per day. Every day of delay has a price, which is paid by people saving for a first home, for retirement or for their children's education.

Second, on payments modernization, for a small business owner who today waits days for a payment to clear or pays a steep fee to settle a foreign transaction, real-time payments and stablecoins change that calculus. The infrastructure is ready to make things easier for that small business owner. What matters now is on-schedule implementation.

Finally, as others have mentioned, none of this succeeds without trust. Financial fraud is a serious and growing problem, and Canadians deserve better protection. We support the creation of the national anti-fraud strategy and the financial crimes agency, and in particular the attention being paid to all regulated entities, including digital and social media platforms, where most financial scams begin.

We know our clients are engaged too. Every time we launch new security features—for example, the ability to add a layer of friction in an ID verification when you send an e-transfer that is not from your work or home—we see strong uptake in those measures. Technology gives our clients options, and they avail themselves of them.

In short, the financial system Canadians deserve is within reach. What we need now is the resolve to finish the job.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Ms. Oliver.

We will begin now with six minutes for Mr. McLean.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and let me thank all our witnesses here today. There has been very good input so far, and we're going to appreciate all the comments you can give us on what needs to change going forward.

The first question is for the Canadian Bankers Association.

You talked about your book of business, with $1.7 trillion in mortgages and $1.9 trillion in business loans in Canada. Is that correct?

[Alex Ciappara]

Yes.