Quickly.
Evidence of meeting #15 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wto.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #15 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wto.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
In my opinion, it isn't included because a seal is not a fish.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
I will allow a quick response from Mr. Sumaila, just 30 seconds.
10 a.m.
Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
Maybe one of the ways that Canada could deal with this is if the money saved from these rules could be used to support the communities in finding ways to live off the sea. I know it's difficult to say, but in the long run, this is what we will need to do.
So use the resources, and give people the skills and training on what we need to be able to leave off overfishing, because that is essentially where we end up.
10 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Thank you very much.
Between our previous witnesses and our current witnesses--a very esteemed and stimulating debate--I get more and more nervous and scared all the time. I appreciate our esteemed gentlemen.
I honestly think the goal is to protect the fish from overfishing, illegal catches, and that. That is the end goal and a very lofty goal to achieve. In simplistic terms, it's something that everyone should be able to support.
My problem is that when you make comments that “maybe we could retrain them into something else” and “short-term pain for long-term gain”, do you actually visit those rural fishing communities in northern, eastern, and western Canada, and first nations groups, and sit there and tell them that?
10 a.m.
Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
I actually do some of that. I visit. I go to Prince Rupert.
10 a.m.
Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
I go all over the world. I'm just back from Dakar, actually.
10 a.m.
Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
The fishermen are asking for subsidies like the Europeans pay their fleets to be taken out.
10 a.m.
Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
Because that kills the fish. One of the fishermen told me “they're killing and eating our lives away”.
10 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
That's understandable. But do you then tell them that their subsidies go as well? Do you tell them that?
10 a.m.
Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
They say it's difficult. Of course they don't want that. Clearly the fishermen don't want their subsidies to go away. I want subsidies if I can get them, but is that what the nation wants?
10 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
On the definition of a subsidy or a strategic investment, it depends how you meander around it. I want to thank you for that, but I want to make sure that in these negotiations Canada doesn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Sir, you indicated about the other boxes...you didn't get a chance to say. There must be something positive here that I can take to the bank. Perhaps you'd like to proceed on that and use my remaining time to explain the so-called amber and green boxes, if you don't mind.
10 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
I think it's important to make you more optimistic--
10 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
--to know what's in the subsidy.
10 a.m.
A voice
You can speak in French.
10 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
You would like me to speak French; that's fine, but my text is in English.
For example, there are subsidies for improving fishing or service vessel and crew safety. There are subsidies for the adoption of gear for selective fishing techniques. If you want to make fishing more environmentally friendly, you could give subsidies in this context.
A point that's very important for you involves everything for retraining fishermen. For example, to retrain fishermen for other activities that are not related to fishing in any way, you could give them these kinds of subsidies. The exact text is “subsidies to cover personnel costs exclusively for re-education, retraining or redeployment of fishworkers into occupations unrelated to fishing”. That's very important, because there is a social impact.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
My next question I ask out of ignorance, because I don't know. If we take a fisherman out of Musquodoboit Harbour and give him $50,000 to retrain as an oil rigger, couldn't somebody else in another round of discussions about energy say that we subsidized that worker in order to do this job? Could that not be challenged in another field of WTO?
10:05 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
The possibility exists, but this new subsidized worker must have an adverse effect on another country. So in most cases most countries wouldn't say a word about that. If it's in a specific sector, it's possible, but the danger is not very great.