Fisheries Committee on Feb. 15th, 2011

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

I asked about data availability to the public from the work that's being done through this partnership. I was told that, yes, it's posted on a website for any member of the public to access. What I heard from you is that the data is available and there is a website that can direct stakeholders to what organization has the data. That's a very different level of transparency and availability of data. Could you clarify whether it's stakeholders or is it the public, and which stakeholders?

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

The website that we have at this time is called a meta-data site where we have a description of all the data sets that are available. Next year we are going to put the real data. At this time, we have a description of the data sets that have been collected and are available. It's called the Polar Data Catalogue and it's managed in collaboration with the universities, DFO, and different other organizations. It's national and also international at this time.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

So it's a description of what kind of data there is that will one day be possibly available. Is it beyond the stakeholders who are partners in ArcticNet, or is there already a commitment to make those data sets available to the general public?

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

Yes. The data that will be loaded in the Polar Data Catalogue will be available to anyone who wants to access it.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

For free, or is there payment?

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

For free. There's no charge whatsoever.

But you have to understand that at this time all the physical data is ready to be loaded on the site, but for much of the biological data, it takes a lot of time to get the information, to sort the samples, and to get the numbers together.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you. I congratulate you for that commitment to transparency, Mr. Fortier.

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lawrence MacAulay]

Monsieur Blais.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Fortier, first I'm going to let you give committee members your assessment of Jean-Philippe Robillard's article because it's that journalist's article that in a way started it all off, that created this public perception. I'm going to let you comment on the question.

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

Thank you, Mr. Blais.

That perception is explained in the document I submitted to you. For us, this was a communications disaster because Mr. Robillard's article contains an enormous number of falsehoods and exaggerated and controversial points. It was devastating for us, particularly for the image the Amundsen enjoys and our work with the Canadian public. It somewhat comes back to the question that the Honourable Mr. Donnelly asked about the problem of perception in this matter.

This was a lesson for us. In fact, we have learned to be suspicious. To that point, we had been very well treated by the media, but suddenly, because we were associated with the oil industry, we lost our reputation. That was very tough and very frustrating, particularly for me.

I could talk to you at length about the approach Mr. Robillard used. I was very disappointed. It's extremely important for the public to be made aware of these complex and delicate issues, for the public to understand why we are associating with the industry to study the potential impacts and risks of exploratory drilling in the Beaufort Sea.

Our purpose isn't to help the industry secure a licence from the National Energy Board. Our purpose is to provide data to all stakeholders so that the decision is made on the best possible scientific basis. We aren't working for the industry; we are in partnership with the industry. We are also not drilling in the Beaufort Sea.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Now let's look at the merits.

ArcticNet is a consortium of enterprises funded by governments, in a way. Obviously, your collaboration with Esso or BP means that it will cost you less to do the work you have to do. That's what I understand in fact.

I also understand that Esso, like BP, will eventually use that collaboration to gather their own data, which are important for the future.

Am I accurately describing the situation?

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

Quite accurately. I would perhaps correct you on a few points.

Under our mandate and those of all the networks of centres of excellence, we must very clearly try to associate with the private sector in order to develop a strategic research sector for Canada. Consequently, there is nothing blameworthy about our association with the private sector. For example, since the very start of ArcticNet, we have had extensive collaborations with Manitoba Hydro, Manitoba's hydro supplier, and that never raised a problem because there was no perception problem.

In the case of the oil industry, this isn't really costing us any less. It's enabling us to do more work, to secure more data on the region. It's very interesting for us because we can get additional data for our large-scale studies, both in time and in space. It also enables us to recapitalize the Amundsen's equipment and to develop new research projects in the Arctic.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Once again, in actual fact, how much does it cost ArcticNet to lease the Amundsen?

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

Every year, ArcticNet pays $2.7 million—it was $2.2 million until recently, but our budget has just been renewed—to operate the Amundsen. This enables us to be at sea. At first, it allowed us 84 days of sea time, which represents two rotations. The rotations are counted as periods of six weeks, or 42 days. At first, we were able to get 84 days, but that fell to 42 days with the rise in oil prices.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

All right. How much of the $2.7 million that it costs to lease the Amundsen comes from the industry?

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

Zero. It's what we pay for our program, year in and year out. The industry provides additional funding that enables us to extend the program. The $2.7 million paid by ArcticNet thus corresponds to a completely independent amount. Whether or not we have collaborations and partnerships with the industry, we will pay $2.7 million to charter the Amundsen next year.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I don't know whether I was unclear or whether you didn't understand my question. It costs that amount to lease the Amundsen. That's fine. But there's also a financial partnership agreement with BP and Esso. So we conclude that additional money is paid.

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

Yes, the partnership agreement with the oil companies includes the entire scientific program, including the charter of the Amundsen. This enables us to conduct a bigger research program in the Beaufort Sea, which includes the exploration concessions.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I have a little document here that states that the financial contribution of the oil companies was in the order of $11 million in 2009, and that included an additional amount above and beyond the cost of the operations.

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

Yes.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

You're of course going to say yes because, in a way, it comes from us. Half of that additional amount of $2.4 million in 2009 was reinvested partly for recapitalization purposes and the other half was allocated to the scientific program.

I really want to understand the figures. In total, it costs a certain amount to lease the Amundsen and to do the work. One portion, $11 million in 2009... So that's for one year?

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

Yes.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

And the agreement has been renewed for five years.

[Prof. Louis Fortier]

The agreement is for five years, but not for the same amount of work, that is to say that it's only a continuity in order to recover the moorings that are put in place every year in order to have a temporary change in the ecosystem.