Evidence of meeting #86 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was adaptation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Absolutely. What we found was that they did do good analyses. They did two of them. They were ahead of the curve. They've developed all kinds of tools. It's a comparative, so you compare it to the other departments. At some point I remember the director coming in and saying, “Where do we say good and bad, or do we say great, good, not so good, or terrible?” We decided to just put a line, “They did good”, “They did not do good”.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
My colleague perhaps could follow up with department officials then.
Thank you.
Liberal
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Thank you.
Thank you so much for being here this morning.
Of course, we know climate change occurs naturally all the time. I mean, we remember when we used to touch the wires on top of the snowbanks in the great winter of 1965, I think it was. We know that happens, but we also know that man is responsible for additional climate change and catastrophes that we're seeing around the world
Having said that, even if we had met all of what we promised in the last 20 years, we probably would still have events that are now I guess responsible because of man's pollution. I don't know if you would agree with that. I don't think we could say, if we had done that 20 years ago we wouldn't have those small craft harbours being washed out and all those things.
Have we looked ahead, and have all departments looked at and budgeted for what's coming? Have we done an exercise in that sense? Whether it's agriculture, fisheries, and all the other, it's going to cost us. We know that. Have we done any exercise on that?
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I don't believe that the Government of Canada has an overall assessment of the costs of not adapting to climate change and the costs of adapting. The researchers would argue, and I've read studies, that not adapting is going to cost more than spending the money to adapt. However, because the Government of Canada has not done a good assessment of its risks across all of its assets, all of its programs, it does not have a good idea of the risks to government assets and programs, and delivery of programs to Canadians. If it doesn't have that, it can't have budgeted that. That has to be the first step.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
You would say it's a good idea to start budgeting for what it's going to cost because we know it's real.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Absolutely it's real, and we are adapting now. We did another audit on severe weather which showed how much money was being spent by federal coffers to help provinces after disasters, and we saw a real spike in terms of the value.
You could talk to the Insurance Bureau of Canada, as well, who could give you very specific information about how the costs of flooding and extreme weather have increased in the last few years. I would encourage you to talk to them.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Monsieur Normand, thank you, and, of course, Ms. Gelfand. Thank you so much for your presentations, your honesty, and your zest for your job.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Thank you.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I do.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
We like ours too. Thank you so much for accommodating us.
Folks, we have a few minutes. Once I see our department coming in and ready, we'll start again.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Welcome back, everyone. Let's all settle in. As we mentioned before, this is a briefing on report number two, “Adapting to the Impacts of Climate Change, of the Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development”, fall 2017.
As you know, we passed a resolution that we have to have a hearing on these reports within six months, which is what we are doing now, because I mentioned this was presented in the fall of 2017.
Right now, we have the Department of Fisheries and Oceans in front us: Arran McPherson, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science; Keith Lennon, Director, Oceans Science Branch; and Pierre Pepin, Senior Research Scientist in Science.
We also have Donna Jean Kilpatrick, Director, Engineering and Technical Services with Small Craft Harbours.
We also have some special guests with us. We have a whole slate of replacements joining us, and we are certainly honoured.
First, from Edmonton Strathcona, Linda Duncan.
From Dufferin—Caledon, David Tilson.
From Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, Bev Shipley.
Thank you all for joining us.
Dr. McPherson, go ahead for up to 10 minutes please.
Dr. Arran McPherson Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you, and good morning.
I would like to start by thanking you all for giving us the opportunity to join you here today to highlight the work that's being done by departmental scientists to better understand and predict the impacts of climate change in aquatic environments, and to help advance the Government of Canada's efforts on climate change adaptation.
My colleagues have already been introduced.
I'd also like to thank the commissioner, who I think is no longer with us, for both her report and her presentation. DFO welcomes the report's acknowledgement of the departments efforts to address the impacts of climate change. The report recognizes that Fisheries and Oceans Canada has shown leadership in the area of climate change adaptation, and has conducted numerous risk assessments on how climate change impacts the delivery of the department's mandate.
Four specific risk assessments were completed. One for each of Canada's three oceans, and for its major inland waterways, under the aquatic climate change adaptation services program. These risk assessments concluded that there is a high probability that Canada's aquatic ecosystems and coastal infrastructure will be highly impacted by climate change over the next 50 years.
Specifically, Canada's oceans are expected to become warmer, fresher, more acidic and less oxygenated as a result of the increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and the changing climate.
These changes in ocean conditions may have profound impacts on aquatic ecosystems and fisheries, coastal infrastructure, and the coastal communities that rely upon them for their sustainability. These potential impacts are creating the need for information and tools that can be used to help the department and its stakeholders respond and adapt to these changes. This is why DFO conducts science, research, and monitoring that is necessary to understand both the current state of the ocean environment as well as how it may be changing.
For example, due to the increasing risk of ocean acidification, aquatic ecosystems that use calcium for their shells or their external skeletons may eventually have difficulty in forming their outer protective coverings. This may mean that, in the future, salmon productivity could decline in the Pacific, because an important food source, copepods, which are small marine molluscs, may not survive in the long term due to the potential changes in their ability to grow a shell.
To respond to this type of increasing risk, DFO has an ocean acidification monitoring and research program, so that scientists have a better understanding of the extent and rate of ocean acidification in the coastal and offshore waters in all three oceans. DFO is conducting research to better understand the biological impacts and responses to ocean acidification by key species that require calcium to survive.
Many coastal communities in Canada are vulnerable to the impacts of climate change resulting from sea level rise and associated storm surges, flooding, and erosion. Future projections of climate change and the marine environment indicate that declining sea ice and rising sea levels will impact Canada's coastline and the infrastructure in these areas. Understanding these changes is essential for inputting into coastal planning processes, and developing adaptation strategies that can minimize the harmful effects that may result.
To better adapt to these future conditions and as the commissioner mentioned in her speaking points, DFO developed the Canadian extreme water level adaptation tool, which provides sea level rise projections for Canada's coastlines over the coming century, and advice on how to build coastal infrastructure to accommodate this projected rise.
This web tool was originally developed for internal use by the small craft harbours program. However, it now represents a positive example of how we've translated scientific data and analysis into usable information products and tools that will help coastal communities in Atlantic Canada. To take this even further, DFO has partnered with the Ecology Action Centre, based in Halifax, Nova Scotia, to bring this information on potential sea level rise directly to coastal communities.
DFO is also working to better understand and predict the vulnerability of commercial species and their prey to the impacts of climate change. DFO scientists are combining research with long-term observations and computer-based models to predict future ocean conditions, such as water temperature, currents, and ocean chemistry. These predictions can provide fisheries managers with insights into future potential ranges and migration patterns of commercial fish species as well as species at risk.
In turn, this type of information can inform decisions about how the timing of a fishery may change, how centres of distribution of species may change, or even how the condition of the fish may change over time. To provide an example, DFO scientists are looking at the impacts of changing ocean temperatures on the timing of the seasonal moults in lobster. Changes in temperature, the availability of prey, and other ecosystem factors can affect the moult timing in lobster. The timing of the moult is important, because it determines when the lobster shells harden, when they fill with meat, and when they're in top market quality. The results of this work will then help fisheries managers and the members of the industry themselves when they're considering the optimal timing for the fishing season.
While I've given you a few examples of how DFO is working to undertake the research needed to support its program decisions, this is also work that supports Environment and Climate Change Canada's overall leadership on climate change, including the actions of the pan-Canadian framework.
On behalf of DFO, we look forward to continuing to provide high-quality, credible climate change science that will benefit Canadians. We're happy to be here today and to answer any questions you may have.
Liberal
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you to the department officials for being here today.
As you know, we just had the commissioner of the environment here. She gave you a glowing report card on the work you're doing with regard to climate change mitigation and adaptation.
I have a number of questions with regard to small craft harbours specifically. The commissioner referenced the Margaree Harbour and using the tool to make sure that when the new structure was put in place, it met rising sea levels and storm surges. Is that tool used on every small craft harbour that needs to be fixed, changed, built, or rebuilt? I'm wondering this because in my riding I have probably the most small craft harbours in the country. There have been times, over the last number of years, when I have seen money put into building or fixing a structure, and then it's under water. It has not been adapted to the surges that are happening.
Is that tool readily available and always used, or it is just every now and then? Does somebody have to ask for it? I'm just wondering about the process for using the tool for that.
Donna Jean Kilpatrick Director, Engineering and Technical Services, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It is readily available to all of our regional engineers. In some areas it's used more than in other areas, where we don't have as extreme a rise in the sea level.
That said, it is a predictive tool, so it isn't alway right. We don't know whether the predictions are accurate or not, and in some areas it's worse than in others. But the tool is available to all of our regional engineers, yes.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
As we heard from the commissioner, we know that sea levels are rising. You said it here yourself. We know that climate change is having an effect on infrastructure. Would it not be prudent to have that available so that when there's a design being done for a small craft harbour, you make sure that...? We've seen on the south shore of Nova Scotia that sea levels are changing and storm surges are a lot worse than they've ever been.
I'm just wondering why we wouldn't use it all the time. I know you say it's a predictor, so it may not work, but at the same time, I question if it's even being used to the full extent.
Director, Engineering and Technical Services, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It is being used. It's rolled out to the consultants who do designs for us as well.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Okay.
With regard to small craft harbours specifically and the changes in sea level rise and storm surges—I'm going to put you on the spot here, and I'm not sure if you can comment on this—one of the things we have a challenge with is the amount of funding available to small craft harbours to mitigate. Should there be a special fund for just mitigation or adaptation for small craft harbours?
Director, Engineering and Technical Services, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
As you know, we have a lot of harbours. We have 750 core harbours, with 7,000 assets worth $5.2 billion. We know that the program is underfunded for the amount of infrastructure we have. That said, we've had great success in the last few years with getting extra budget money to address our program. We do know that the climate change effects will put more pressures on our program, absolutely, with respect to infrastructure deterioration faster than what we would like, with respect to storm surge damages, and with respect to increased dredging.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you.
You mentioned the American lobster molts and the science with regard to the changing seasons. We're seeing a lot more lobster in my area now than we've ever seen because of the colder waters and the movement.
With regard to the seasonal changes or the movement, have you looked at when lobster seasons actually open and close, and at possibly moving those? Because of the movement of the lobster, I guess I question if we're fishing at the right time.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think, in the long term, that's the ideal outcome. Obviously, we don't have our colleagues here around the table who have managed the fisheries, so I can't speak to the processes that they undertake. The researchers who are working in Atlantic Canada on American lobster are doing that in lockstep with the program managers in those areas, and are trying to engage industry members as well. That's not to say that next year we're going to see a big dramatic change in the lobster season.
If we think about the time scale of climate change, which is decades, in 10 years, in 50 years, we just want to be sure that we have the information base that will allow us to have those decisions made most appropriately. That's the job of science.