Fisheries Committee on Feb. 13th, 2018

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Madam Commissioner, I live in a part of Canada that is extremely vulnerable to climate change. I'm a member of Parliament from Prince Edward Island. We're seeing this every day with a rising sea level and extreme weather.

My question is about this comment that is often made: why should Canada be doing anything if nobody else is doing anything? I would like you to elaborate on the benefits of Canada being a leader in the field of greenhouse gas reduction instead of us saying, well, nobody else is moving, so therefore we cannot achieve anything with Canada moving on its own.

Canada is one of the largest countries in the world. It has significant coastal areas that are vulnerable. Where do you see the benefits of Canada showing leadership in the area of greenhouse gas reductions?

[Julie Gelfand]

In my role in the Office of the Auditor General, my job is to talk to you about the results of our audits. In my position, I cannot give you just opinions about things. I cannot opine.

What I can tell you is that we did do an audit on Canada's investments in green, clean technology. We released it at the same time as the adaptation audit and the mitigation audit. We found that Canada—I'm going by memory here, because it was a few months ago—does a very good job of investing in new green, clean technology. Our audit was quite clear.... The language I used was that Canadians should feel confident that the money we're putting into a couple of these funds run by Natural Resources Canada and Sustainable Development Technology Canada is well managed and well given out to new green technology.

In our audit, we found that we're good at the beginning, but we're not that good at getting from the beginning to full-scale market implementation. That's part of the innovation curve that Canada is not as good at. I would suggest that many studies are indicating that there are new opportunities in clean technology. Also, some people have indicated that Canada should become a leader in this, because we have opportunities to become a leader in it.

There's something you said that concerned me, which was that others are not doing anything in terms of reducing greenhouse gas emissions?

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

They're not doing enough.

[Julie Gelfand]

Okay. For example, I am on an expert panel reviewing the German government's sustainable development strategy, and I'm heading off to be part of an international peer review for that. I would argue that many countries are reducing their greenhouse gas emissions, and while some of them contribute 2% or 3% globally, they are still proceeding. I would say that countries are trying and are working hard to figure out how to transition to a low-carbon future, which is something that all the countries that signed on to the Paris Agreement agreed to do. Canada agreed to do that, and we go in and audit to see whether or not Canada has done it.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

I have a couple of short questions.

In your audit, have you identified or taken a look at the impact of climate change on tidal action? We talk about reasons we're subject to tidals or storm surges.

[Julie Gelfand]

Absolutely.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Have you done an analysis on the impact on tidal action?

[Julie Gelfand]

Again, it wouldn't be our office that would do the analysis. We would ask the departments whether or not they've done it, and we would get them to show us that they've actually done it.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Has it been done?

[Julie Gelfand]

That would be a question to ask the departments. Those are very specific questions.

Again, I'm going to suggest that, based on the work that we did, it is highly likely that they did do that because they did do a very good risk assessment.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Maybe, then, it's.... This question is in the same direction. One of the things that would have an extremely negative impact on Atlantic Canada would be the impact of warming sea temperatures on the traditional species. In fact, this summer.... Everybody's aware of the situation with whales in the gulf. Most of the expert opinion is that they're moving there because of climate change to follow a food pattern that is no longer there.

Is the department, in your analysis, preparing the risk of the impact on inshore fisheries within Atlantic Canada?

[Julie Gelfand]

Yes, I would suggest that they have. We're also in the process of starting an audit on the whole issue of marine mammals. That will be coming out in the next year or so—a separate audit just on the management of marine mammals.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I'd like you to focus on what you've noticed in your assessments over the last number of years. Could you identify some key trends that you may be observing that would alarm you as commissioner of the environment?

[Julie Gelfand]

Again, unfortunately, that's not my role. My role is to identify risks that the Government of Canada may be facing. I can audit against commitments that the government has made. It's not within my purview to opine on what the commissioner sees.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

That's okay. Within those risks—

[Julie Gelfand]

What I would say is that the selection of my audits would be your indicator of what is of concern to me. By selecting audits like what's happening with marine mammals, what's happening with salmon farming, what's happening on adaptation, our leadership in getting all of the auditors general from across the country to look at adaptation and mitigation. The selection of the audit topics would be your best indicator of the issues that are of concern to the commissioner.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

What were those audit topics over the last 10 years?

[Julie Gelfand]

Over the last few years, we've looked at climate change almost annually because that's a big one. That's a big issue that the government has indicated is a big issue. We've done a bunch of others. We did one on the National Energy Board. We've done one on the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission. We're doing several in the areas of fisheries, such as aquaculture. Fisheries management was one that we did recently. I believe we appeared.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

You did an audit on rebuilding stocks.

Yes. We did audits on species at risk, on biodiversity. The marine mammals audit is coming up, as well as one on the ability of Canada to implement the sustainable development goals.

This, by the way, is an area where Canada is leading—on Agenda 2030. We are leading a group of international.... All the auditors general from around the world have indicated that they are concerned about whether or not their countries are able to implement these sustainable development goals, and Canada is leading on the preparedness audits. Are the countries prepared to implement the sustainable development goals? We're leading on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much, everyone.

Mr. Miller, you mentioned splitting your time. Mr. Arnold was under seven minutes, so I can give you three minutes each, or you could start and pass it to Mr. Sopuck as you see fit.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

We would appreciate that three minutes. I just have a couple of brief questions, and I'll just turn it over to Mr. Sopuck for the balance. Is that okay with you?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Yes, I'll give you the five-plus minutes. Just pass it to Mr. Sopuck when you finish.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Yes. Thank you very much.

My thanks to our witnesses for being here.

As my first point, Mr. Arnold was asking you about what countries had signed on and what have you. You mentioned China and India and maybe another country. Yes, they've signed this accord that says we're shooting for a goal. Well, what I'd like to say is that Mr. McDonald, Mr. Hardie, and I could sign an accord that said our goal was to grow a full head of hair by the end of next week.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

When we don't do that, there are no consequences. I know it may sound humorous, but the reality is that if anybody believes these countries will actually fulfill their goals, I suggest that the sky is a little different colour in their world.

About your presentation, Ms. Gelfand, I have yes-or-no questions. First, there's man-made climate change. There are things man does that affect the climate. We all know that. They're miniscule in the whole thing, but they're there. Should we address them? Of course we should, and I believe governments are, around the world; not all governments, but many are. Then there's natural climate change. There are two distinct ones.

Would you agree with that statement?