Evidence of meeting #90 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dfo.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
9:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Domestic Vessel Regulatory Oversight and Boating Safety, Department of Transport
With the new fishing vessel regulation that came into force in 2012, we have two lengths. The below-24-metre length standard is the standard coming from the international standard organization. For the above-24-metre length standard, we use the length from the international tonnage convention because the application is there.
9:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Domestic Vessel Regulatory Oversight and Boating Safety, Department of Transport
DFO regulates differently, and as Ms. Weldon said, we do not regulate DFO. If you'll allow me, there's a big difference though, in the way we regulate with length. Transport Canada does not prohibit length. Transport Canada regulations are based on a scale and, as the vessel size increases, the requirements are risk-based and they increase. We don't prohibit any length, which is a bit different than—
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I agree and depending on the use of the vessel and what have you, there are different regulations. I agree 100%. However, has there been an attempt by Transport Canada and you to work with DFO to find a standardized vessel regulation?
9:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Domestic Vessel Regulatory Oversight and Boating Safety, Department of Transport
We have a memorandum of understanding with DFO, such that we meet and discuss these issues, and we have discussed that issue. Obviously, there is no uniformity at this point.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Mr. Laporte, you said that in your opinion, fisheries resource management is one key area where little progress has been made. Your testimony is absolutely gobsmacking. It speaks to what we've heard time and time again with DFO, that from top-down management, it is a department that.... We've seen testimony that is very concerning for us in other files.
Can you tell me how closely you work with DFO on these issues? Here we are. We're studying this and you've very articulately laid out your concerns. Have you tabled these with the minister and the deputy minister?
9:15 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We are an independent, arm's-length agency, so we don't work too closely with any of the regulators.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Have you tabled this with the minister and the deputy minister?
9:15 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
In our investigation reports, we have identified specific findings in each case, in each accident, and those were sent to the ministers.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Mr. Chair, I would ask that perhaps Ms. Weldon can table those reports with the committee at the earliest convenience. Thank you.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Yes, indeed.
Are you able to provide the information that Mr. Doherty requests? Thank you. It's at your earliest convenience and preferably in both languages, if possible.
Just very quickly, as a point of clarification, you said your relationship to DFO is a memorandum of understanding. Is that right?
9:15 a.m.
Director General, Marine Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Among the many ways that we relate to them, we have something in writing with respect to that relationship. We have multiple meetings in each of the regions. We meet regularly. We are in standing committees together. There are a million ways we interact with them.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
I just wanted to know the title of your relationship with them, in that particular respect.
9:15 a.m.
Director General, Marine Safety and Security, Department of Transport
It's a memorandum of understanding, among other things.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
March 22nd, 2018 / 9:15 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to our department officials for being with us and providing your testimony on this study.
Monsieur Laporte, if I could start with you, you mentioned in your testimony that there were 43 deaths because of fishing-related accidents—8.3 lives lost each year. Could you talk about some of these accidents and give the committee more examples or enlighten us as to what those look like?
9:15 a.m.
Director, Marine Investigations, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We found the stern extension, and we've got several examples where the fishermen modified their vessels to operate within DFO management measures. In the Five Star accident, the TSB investigation found that the vessel's original construction met licence length restrictions. However, the stern extension is not required to be included.
The Pacific Siren investigation revealed that the length of vessel's bow and hull met licence length restrictions; however, a stern extension was not necessarily to accommodate the 300 prawn traps allocated to the licence. Yet, DFO does not require an assessment of a vessel for its intended purpose for its prior designated licence, as we've mentioned.
We have a third one. These are only the recent ones that we've investigated. In the case of the Jesse G, the TSB investigation revealed that the length of the vessel's bow and hull, which did not include the stern extension, met licence length restrictions. Again, however, DFO did not require an assessment of the vessel's adequacy for prawn fishing prior to granting a stacked licence in this case. There are two licences.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Okay. Those are some examples, then. Thank you.
You also mentioned that fisheries resource management is one of the key areas where little progress is made. Could you expand a little bit more on this? Why hasn't it been made? What are the barriers? How can it be improved?
9:15 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
I think the main concern we have is that there doesn't appear to be, based on the information we have, adequate consideration of safety in issuing licences. That's the main thing, and that's where it needs to start. They're looking at the commercial viability of the industry, they're looking at the fish stock and the renewal of the fish stock, and they're looking at things like the fish plants that want a stable supply of fish throughout the season as opposed to a huge quantity and then up and down in terms of quantity. That seems to be the driver for a lot of their policies. That's where we see differences across the regions or within the regions from one province to another. They're looking at those economic drivers more than the safety aspect. For a number of years, we've been calling for DFO to work more closely with Transport Canada to try to harmonize things and to ensure that the safety aspects are adequately considered.
Ms. Weldon talked about the MOU. The MOU was signed many years ago, and it was not fully implemented until very recently when they've reactivated this file at our urging and the urging of other stakeholders.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Is there a document in terms of this MOU that you can provide the committee that highlights your concerns and how, for instance, TC and DFO could improve their relationship in terms of improving safety. You referenced that it sounds as if it's working well on the west coast, but that on the east coast a lot can be improved.
Is there a document we could look at where you have recommendations?
9:20 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Our chair, Marc-André, and I have met with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans last year, and we provided a briefing. We have those briefings notes that we could—
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Okay, that would be helpful.
I have a couple of minutes left.
Ms. Weldon, I'll turn to you. If stern extensions compromise vessels' stability, why are they permitted?