Fisheries Committee on March 22nd, 2018

[Jane Weldon]

Quite recently, with the fishing vessel safety regs, we have been quite clear that, if a vessel has a stability assessment—vessels are now required to get stability assessments under certain considerations—and then that vessel has been modified, they have to keep a record of the modification and they have to do another stability assessment. The new fishing vessel safety regs—and they have only been in place since July 13, 2017—were a change Transport Canada made partly in recognition of that very problem. Any vessel that has a hull length more than nine metres that's had a major modification—including extensions, cutting things off, and adding anything, or undergone a change in activity since July 13, 2017, that could adversely affect its stability—is required to undergo another stability assessment by a competent person; there's a licensed group of people who do this.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Here's a last quick question, because I'm probably out of time. How do the fishermen or fishers know about these changes? You said they were recent changes.

[Jane Weldon]

That's correct. First we consult broadly, then we work with the various associations. There are what's called Canadian marine advisory councils that happen twice a year in each region and twice a year nationally. We have issued various documents, and we tweet. You name it, we use that social media, so there are a million different ways. As well, when they're in the ports, our staff discuss that with people. We try to use multiple ways to get at it.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Now we go to Ms. Jordan for seven minutes, please.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing today.

I have a number of questions. I'm going to start with Mr. Laporte.

You mentioned 43 deaths. Was that in five years?

[Jean Laporte]

Yes.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Is that up or down from the previous five years?

[Marc-André Poisson]

It's down from the previous year.

[Jean Laporte]

It is down a bit. The average used to be a little above 10, and it's dropped.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm assuming, and I shouldn't, but you do check vessels after an incident.

[Jean Laporte]

Yes.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

In any of those cases, have you found that they've been modified without Transport Canada having assessed them since they've been modified?

[Marc-André Poisson]

That's correct. We have in many cases.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm also really interested in the fact that Canada as a country has a federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans and a federal Transport Canada, and yet it's different on the west coast and the east coast. Why?

[Jane Weldon]

I'll just highlight that from the perspective of Transport Canada. It's not different between any coast or within the middle of the country. There are differences in DFO, and I suggest the committee ask DFO why they have structured themselves that way.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Ms. Weldon, you said in your opening statement that you have a good working relationship with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard. Yet, when we hear the testimony from Mr. Laporte and Mr. Poisson, it doesn't really seem to be that way in terms of communication, I guess, for lack of a better word. There doesn't seem to be very good communication between the two departments. Can you just talk to that for a second? Do you have any comments to make on that? I'm hearing that there isn't good communication, but you seem to think you have a good relationship.

[Jane Weldon]

I talk to DFO three to four times a week about various issues.

What I would say is that, as a safety regulator, we obviously have our points of view, which we share with DFO. They may or may not choose to believe, accept, or act on those. Every department is faced with a lot of pressures in terms of workload. Obviously DFO makes their decisions about what their priorities are. As a safety regulator, I certainly make my decisions purely based on safety. Hence, for example, after the recent change, when it became clear that people were making stability changes and not getting them assessed, we made it mandatory from a safety perspective, although the changes were being made for other reasons. If I think they're having an effect on safety, then I make a regulation.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

DFO can approve a modification to a vessel for adding on to the stern and whatever, but then, do you have to approve it before it gets done? I guess my concern is that we're hearing that there are people who have this done because they've got the approval, but then maybe Transport Canada says they don't have the approval, so what's the process? Maybe you could walk me through that.

[Jane Weldon]

A decision to make a modification to a vessel is made by an individual fisher and doesn't require approval. However, if you make a modification that's going to have an impact on your stability, you then have to get your vessel looked at again. It would be after the fact. For example, if you made a modification that would negatively impact stability, Transport Canada would identify that it was not acceptable and would work with the fisher to identify what would need to be done to get the stability of the vessel into an acceptable state.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm still trying to get my head around process. So any time they want to modify their boat or vessel, do they have to come to you?

[Jane Weldon]

Only if it's going to have an impact on stability.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

How do they know that, if someone doesn't do an assessment beforehand?

[Jane Weldon]

Any reasonable fisher would. If you are adding weight or changing your vessel, it's going to make a stability difference. It's something inherently you would be aware of, whereas something like adding a railing might not be significant.

The staff are around in the ports all the time, and they certainly have conversations on a daily basis with fishers. As well, when they're having major work done, it's normally done at a facility. Part of what those facilities do, obviously, is advise.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You said you have staff at the ports on a regular basis. How many staff do you have who monitor ports in Atlantic Canada?