Evidence of meeting #5 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have many indicators for bycatch, because scientists are looking at this issue.
Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes. This issue is taken into account.
Bloc
Acting Regional Director, Resource Management and Aboriginal Fisheries Branch, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can talk about the impact of seining, but I can't provide specific figures.
Herring caught by seine are a variety of sizes, ranging from young herring to older fish. In contrast, gillnets catch only herring that are four years of age or older. Seining does have an impact, and we have protocols in place to address it. In the case of herring that are smaller or that are less than four years of age, their landed value is multiplied by the number of herring caught.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Madame Gill.
Mr. Johns, you have two and a half minutes or less, please.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you.
Most of our six major Atlantic herring stocks aren't doing well, as we know. Three are critically depleted and two have uncertain status. As forage fish, they play a hugely important role as prey for so many fish and other species. Rebuilding our herring stocks is vitally important for coastal communities that fish them or use them as bait for other fisheries as well.
According to the department's own survey, “Sustainability Survey for Fisheries”, or SSF 2018, only half of the stocks have estimates of targeted fishing mortality. Only one stock has a harvest control rule. Only one stock has removal reference points. These are key components of the precautionary approach framework.
Can you tell me what the department is doing to ensure there are accurate estimates of total fishing mortality that are targeted in incidental fishing mortality, and whether other elements of the PA framework are in place for all Atlantic herring stocks? These are elements like limit reference points, upper stock reference and harvest control rules with removal references for each stock status zone.
As well, how are you planning to accelerate rebuilding these stocks?
Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There's a lot built into that question.
What I can certainly say is that the precautionary approach framework and establishing reference points and harvest control rules is an important component of our sustainable fisheries framework, but the absence of those reference points and harvest control rules does not mean that we are not managing the stock sustainably. There are other tools that we can use, and certainly, in all of the cases of all of those stocks, we do receive peer-reviewed science advice to inform management decisions.
That said, we are certainly moving forward with the development of harvest control rules and reference points for each of the stocks for which they don't currently exist—not just for herring, but across the board. In fact, as you know, amendments to the Fisheries Act in the last Parliament created some legal framework for that as well. I would say that as a first point.
In terms of the specifics around the work plan and when we anticipate having certain reference points in place for given stocks, we publish those work plans on the DFO website, and they are part of our response to the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, including the development of reference points. Those annual work plans are put on the web. We are trying to bring forward increased transparency around how we're progressing and implementing those policies.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Johns.
That concludes the round of questioning.
With the permission of the committee, I'd like to ask a question or look for some information on this as chair.
Mr. Burns, in a previous question about seals, you mentioned that there was no quota as such, no limits. I think that there's a difference in that, because to my understanding, the limit that's announced each spring.... In the last report I saw, there are about 7.5 million harp seals on the east coast or the north and whatnot. The allowable take each season, I think, is about just over 400,000 seals. Nowhere near that gets taken, but nobody—and there's no one government at fault—has taken seriously in quite a number of years the growth of the seal population and its effect.
Do they eat herring? Yes, I would suggest they eat herring. They eat cod, they eat mackerel and they eat everything that swims in the water. I think they eat somewhere up to about 30 pounds of fish a day.
To say we don't know the impact on any stock from the predation of seals is a bit ingenuous, I think. I know the minister has appointed a seal task team and I'm looking forward to the results coming back from it. There are some really good people on it, and some of them I know.
As for the seal population, I can talk to any fisherman, and they can show me pictures from when they're out fishing. They're tearing up their gear and they're doing everything possible. There are thousands and thousands of seals floating around on the top of the ocean with a cod fish or some other species in their mouth, and something has to be done, whether it's driven by the department or driven by the minister. If something is not done soon to control the seal herd, we'll lose species that we'll never get back again.
I would suggest that if there was a predator similar to this on land, and it was devastating a beef farmer's herd or a dairy farmer's herd, government would find a way to go out an eradicate that predator, and you'd never hear tell of it again. Vegetable farmers in Newfoundland have permission to shoot nuisance moose if they're eating the cabbage and the turnip.
Seals haven't moved to that yet upon land, but they're doing the same thing in the water, and nobody—government, department officials, and minister after minister after minister—has taken it seriously. It's time for somebody, whether it's through science or whatever other information is needed, to give the minister the information that forces their hand to make a decision on seals once and for all. That's my final statement.
I'll thank everyone for their appearance here today. I know it wasn't easy at times, but again, you've always been available to come and appear before the committee, and we appreciate it very much. I'm sure we'll see you again in the future.
Mr. Arnold, you have just 30 seconds.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your indulgence.
I'd like to just take 30 seconds to relay that we as elected members representing our constituents, the fishermen, the people on the ground, posed some very hard questions to you. That's because these are the hard questions we get from our constituents. These aren't personal questions from us at you. Please understand that they're coming from our constituents, so thank you very much for being here.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
We'll suspend for a few moments to go in camera to deal with some committee business.
[Proceedings continue in camera]
