Fisheries Committee on April 14th, 2021

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of the witnesses for the important work you're doing on behalf of wild salmon.

We obviously had the lowest return in the Fraser River, the world's largest salmon-bearing river—I can hear you laughing, Mr. Chair, by the way—in recorded history a year and a half, or almost two years, ago. That was followed by what is now the lowest return in recorded history for wild Pacific salmon in the Fraser.

The government hasn't made any significant changes to the investment outside of Big Bar. They didn't have a budget last year. They didn't table one because of COVID. In the fall economic statement, they didn't address this critical emergency. We've been asking for the minister to declare a wild salmon emergency, because that's exactly what it is.

Mr. Riddell, can you talk about how important 2021 budget will be to addressing the wild salmon emergency? You talked about what could happen next year, the next five years and the next 10 years if we don't address this emergency immediately.

[Dr. Brian E. Riddell]

Well, I wish I knew what will be in the budget on Monday. I hear there's an investment in wild salmon. I'm sure it will be very warmly received. Whether it's going to be adequate or not is, I think, another question, because I actually don't know anyone who has had input to the development of that amount of money.

The amount of money that is required has to involve a long-term commitment, and it will be substantial. There is no point in really hiding that. You have heard examples from each of us about all the things that could be done and the problems. There are many things to deal with.

I'm a commissioner for Canada for the Pacific Salmon Treaty, so I deal with Mr. Hauknes' issue about the allocation among various areas and the regulation.

We have lots of great people to know what to do. The problem is that we don't have great data. We need a commitment to understanding what is really going on. We heard about the DNA sampling. We have been doing that for a long period of time, but it doesn't build on the abundance of salmon. We have to do other things.

What we're finding is that the reliance on hatcheries is something we're going to have to look at very carefully, because I think the big unknown in salmon is—

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

No interpretation is coming through right now. I think the witness's Internet connection is poor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Nancy or Tina, could we check on that, please?

I have the time stopped now for a moment, so we can get this corrected.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Tina Miller]

Yes. Would you like to suspend while we look into this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes. We will suspend for a moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Blanchette-Joncas, are you hearing this okay now?

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

It seems to be working now, but it's on and off. I still see a message that the Internet connection is poor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

It may be on your end rather than on Mr. Riddell's, possibly.

We will give it a try to see how it goes.

Mr. Riddell, continue with your answer. We will wait for a moment to start the timer again.

[Dr. Brian E. Riddell]

I'm trying to think of where we got to, but I think the real issue that we have is where we will go with the money to build a future for salmon. We have to understand the expected effects in the ocean. Then we will know how much we have to conserve and the breadth of actions we have to take in fresh water. The question is becoming more complicated; it's not getting easier.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I understand that and respect it, especially with the warming ocean, but the things that humans can do,....

Maybe I will pose this to Captain Temple.

We have this budget coming up. We know in our region that the British Columbia salmon restoration and innovation fund has just not been adequate. We have had many applications go in, and many have been rejected. These applications not only fund critical projects, but they help mobilize volunteers whom we get and can get out to do the important work.

Mr. Temple, can you talk about what we need in terms of restoration alone? You have been doing that work. The NDP has been calling for a five-fold increase of the B.C. restoration fund.

[Capt Josh Temple]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

I think it's important to note that the enthusiasm and the willingness and the science are all there. What is lacking, obviously, is adequate funding to support the variety and the multitude of projects that we all acknowledge need to be completed.

The question is where the money comes from. That question is far above my pay grade, but I can say that we first need to focus on habitat restoration, then invasive species control and then potentially hatchery production. Augmentation will fail if the habitat is degraded, and we cannot ensure viability if that habitat is replete with invasive species. It's a circle: restore the habitat, remove aquatic invasive species, and replenish via hatchery production, if necessary, which it looks to be.

This pathway is supported heavily by science and proven by highly successful localized salmon recovery projects. It's just a question of coming up with the additional pile of funding that we desperately need, if we have any hope of meaningful recovery.

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I believe, Mr. Temple, that wild salmon could go the way of Atlantic cod, if we don't take emergency quick action to invest in restoration.

Can you talk specifically as well about some of the partnerships that are developed on the ground and the importance of those partnerships to strengthen our reacting to this crisis?

[Capt Josh Temple]

Mr. Johns, I think it's important to recognize the importance of first nations' traditional knowledge here.

As they are the original stewards of these lands, I think any partnership is set up for failure if we don't rely heavily on the guidance, information and traditional ecological knowledge of first nations communities throughout the range of pacific salmon.

In conjunction with first nations, we also need restoration organizations that have the technical knowledge that will complement the traditional ecological knowledge so that we can perform the type of large-scale industrial remediation projects that need to happen. We need science, obviously for the myriad of reasons that scientific study adds to the effectiveness of the collaboration. Then we need local community support and finally we need government support, because somebody has to pay for it and largely a lot of the work before the BCSRIF and the coastal restoration fund came into existence and the funding was generated from private individuals or within marine industries. Since then the province and the federal government have stepped in tremendously, and I think that we're on the right path; however, I think we can all agree on the fact that more is needed to reverse the obvious trend, which is decline, decline, decline.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

We'll now go to Mr. Calkins.

Go ahead for five minutes or less, please.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm going to start with some questions for Captain Temple relating to the green crab and the delay in the BCSRIF funding that was applied for.

I know from talking to folks like Ryan Chamberland, on his dock in Sooke Basin, where I watched him capture green crabs, that there's no market for it, and there are catch limits for these invasive specimens.

I'm just wondering, Captain Temple, if you can tell me what needs to happen in order to make the green crab problem manageable. Is it more funding? Is it more capture? Is there a market? What are things that we can do?

Also, what are the real threats that green crab pose? My understanding from talking to folks on the coast is that the eelgrass is subject to being depleted because of these invasive species. Is that the only problem, or is there more to the story?

[Capt Josh Temple]

Thanks, Mr. Calkins. That's a broad question, so I'm going to do my best to answer it as quickly as possible.

First and foremost, European green crab are recognized as one of the world's most deadly invasive species. They're ecosystem engineers. They have proven their ability to absolutely reconstruct nearshore ecosystems, as evidenced by what has occurred in the Atlantic regions of this country, where green crabs established themselves decades sooner than they did out here in the Pacific region. They not only target very critical juvenile wild salmon habitat in eelgrass beds but there's also empirical evidence of their getting up into the rivers and cleaning up salmon redds to prey on the eggs as well.

As I mentioned earlier in my first question and answer, they have also been identified on several occasions preying upon wild juvenile salmon as they're leaving their natal rivers and spending time rearing in that eelgrass habitat as well.

So it's very important that we understand more about how they are affecting wild Pacific salmon here in our region.

In terms of what more we can do, I think there's been a concerted effort by DFO aquatic invasive species and the DFO science areas, coastal first nations, and ENGOs like ours to truly understand how best to move forward and tackle the green crab issue.

There are many unknowns that require concerted scientific study, but in reality what we need to do to boil it down to its simplest point is to get as many green crabs out of the water as quickly as possible. We have to do that taking a cautionary approach because we have to understand the best methods for industrial targeted trapping, and I think some of the progress we've made over the last year and a half in understanding how best to proceed is going to be utilized very quickly.

I would just like to end on the point that while we would like to see traps going into the water as quickly as possible, we do acknowledge that there have been significant delays, likely caused by the fact that Canada and the rest of the world have been in a global pandemic and, obviously, keeping our citizens safe has taken precedence over and above anything else, but we are seeing significant progress and hopefully we'll have some good news in the coming weeks or months about getting traps into the water as quickly as possible.

Thank you.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

So the willpower is there, the people are there, and the capability is there, but it's just a matter of getting the resources and the traps into the water?

[Capt Josh Temple]

That's correct, and I think the support needs to come right from the top, from Ottawa, and trickle down.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

You have my support, for what it's worth.

Mr. Temple, you did bring up pinnipeds in your opening statement.

Given the political sensitivity of this and the fact that marine mammal protection legislation basically takes that part of the ecosystem out of the wildlife management portion of our ecosystem-based management approach, oddly enough, what advice could you give this committee and to anybody making a decision on the effects of it?

How would we gracefully go about pinniped management in the ecosystem-balance approach for preserving salmon?

[Capt Josh Temple]

Thanks, Mr. Calkins. I think we all acknowledge that this is a delicate issue. First and foremost, we have to depend on the science. I think the science has proven that the pinniped population is having an extremely detrimental effect on all age classes of salmon here in the Pacific region.

We perhaps may need to look to our cohorts in the United States, who have already initiated pinniped control programs. It's a difficult decision. We saw that with caribou management and the wolf culls to save what's left of the caribou in certain regions. I think as we move forward, tough decisions will have to be made. I'm certainly glad it's not my decision. However, I wish those who perhaps may be on this call in committee today the best of luck in making that decision. It will be a tough one, but it is supported thoroughly by science.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Calkins, time's up. Thank you.

Mr. Morrissey, you have five minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Captain Temple, to follow up on Mr. Calkins' question, you referred to U.S. beginning to move on pinniped control. Could you elaborate on that a bit?

[Capt Josh Temple]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Morrissey. To my knowledge, for the last couple of years both Oregon and Washington have engaged in lion control, in particular, in a number of rivers throughout Washington and Oregon—particularly, I believe, in the Willamette and tributaries of the Columbia, where both California and Steller's sea lions have proven to be highly effective at utilizing dam structures and bottleneck areas to prey upon both the returning salmon that are coming back to spawn and the juveniles that are out-migrating as well.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

You identified green crab, and there's always been a reference to seal. Which of the two would be more detrimental to the salmon stock, in your opinion?