Fisheries Committee on May 12th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 31 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motions adopted on October 19, 2020 and April 21, 2021, the committee is meeting for its study of the state of Pacific salmon.

I have set aside some time at the end of today's meeting for drafting instructions; therefore, we will move in camera for the latter part of today's meeting. That will take us about 15 minutes. I will let members know when our time for questions for our witnesses has expired.

Today's meeting, of course, is taking place in a hybrid format. I don't think anyone is coming to us from the room, so I won't continue on with too much of that.

So you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

For those participating virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of “floor”, “English” or “French”. With the latest Zoom version, you may now speak in the language of your choice without needing to select the corresponding language channel. You will also notice that the platform's raised hand feature is now in a more easily accessible location on the main toolbar, should you wish to speak or to alert the chair.

There are no members participating in person, so I won't go through that.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses for today.

We have, as an individual, Mr. Anthony Farrell, professor, tier one Canada research chair in fish physiology, conservation and culture, University of British Columbia. From the Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique, we have Myriam Bergeron, director general. From the Tlowitsis First Nation, we have Chief John Smith.

Mr. Smith, I know they had some difficulty with your sound check, so I would remind you to please speak slowly and clearly.

If you want to alert the chair, use the raised hand feature. When you're not speaking, please leave your mute button lit up.

We'll now proceed with opening remarks from Mr. Farrell, for five minutes or less, please.

[Anthony Farrell, Professor, Tier I Canada Research Chair in Fish Physiology, Conservation & Culture, University of British Columbia, As an Individual]

Thank you for the invitation to speak today. As already noted, I'm a professor in land and food systems in the department of zoology at UBC. I hold a Canada research chair tier one in fish physiology, culture and conservation. I'm a fellow of the Royal Society of Canada, and a fellow of the Canadian Geographical Society. I obtained my Ph.D. in zoology at UBC many years ago. I've held academic positions previously at biology departments at the University of New Brunswick and Mount Allison University in New Brunswick, and Simon Fraser University in British Columbia.

In almost a 50-year research career, I've focused predominantly on the physiology of a crucial life support system in fishes, which is their cardio-respiratory system. I work predominantly with B.C. salmonids, but I have researched fish on every continent, including Antarctica, studying over 100 different fish species. I've published over 470 peer-reviewed journal publications, 31 co-edited book volumes, and a three-volume encyclopedia of fish physiology.

My research collaborations are wide in B.C. They have included Fisheries and Oceans Canada, the Pacific Salmon Commission, the Pacific Salmon Foundation, Go Fish BC, commercial fishers, first nations and industry. Among my publications, about 140 of them deal broadly with the conservation physiology of salmon, which is a passion for me. About 50 of the publications deal with assessing sublethal consequences of infections, diseases and toxicants. I was the expert who would have investigated the consequences to salmon of experimental pathogen infections for the strategic salmon health initiative led by Dr. Miller-Saunders and Dr. Riddell. In fact, I've co-authored 21 publications with Dr. Miller-Saunders.

In terms of aquaculture, I was a member of the Honourable John Fraser's B.C. Pacific Salmon Forum. Also, I was a member of Dr. Mona Nemer's Independent Expert Panel on Aquaculture Science, which reported to DFO.

At the request of the provincial Minister of the Environment I was commissioned to review the 2019 Newfoundland and Labrador south coast mortality event of cultured Atlantic salmon. That was authored by Burke, Gardner and Farrell.

Thus, beyond basic science discovery, I seek direct application of my research and knowledge to issues such as salmon conservation; assessing sublethal consequences of infections, diseases and toxicants to salmon; and also sustainable salmonid aquaculture.

If you're interested, I have three messages that I will happily expand on, as time allows.

My first is a comment. I believe, having watched earlier versions of these meetings, that crucial peer-reviewed literature, that which is relevant to wild salmon management because it has investigated the actual impacts to salmon of deliberate disease infections, is being ignored by certain communications to this committee.

The second one is a recommendation of sorts to DFO. DFO needs to make its information and data pertaining to both aquaculture and to wild salmon more readily available, and in that I mean more user-friendly, which is the case in Norway.

My third and last point is that aquaculture decision-making must become more locally based, particularly in B.C. It needs to be evenly applied from coast to coast to coast. To do so, DFO will need to devolve some of its regulatory powers to the local peoples, as is the case in Norway.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to Chief John Smith for five minutes or less, please.

[Chief John M. Smith, Tlowitsis First Nation]

Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Chief John Smith of the Tlowitisis First Nation.

I was born in a fishing community, and in my lifetime I have seen two major fisheries that are no longer fisheries, Rivers Inlet and Knight Inlet, which were major fisheries for our people of the village. Every one of the men there had a gillnet boat. That's how they made their living. Then we all moved away from our village. There was a diaspora that took place, and it ended in about 1970. We haven't had a village since then, so we've now bought a piece of land in Campbell River. It's being turned into a reserve by the government. We're trying to build a new community.

To raise income, we've become part of the fish farm industry. We didn't just come right into it. I didn't support it at first, until I did some studies and talked to some very smart people, and we made a relationship with Grieg Seafood. They are only there because they respect our title and they treat our people with a respect that I've never seen before, as the Norwegians have treated me since I met them before we had fish farms.

Now we're fairly well invested. We're not on any sockeye routes with our farms. We have three farms, and we're looking for another one or two more. That would be very nice.

Our fish aren't very good killers, because the farms in the archipelago have been there for over 30 years and they haven't done the good job that they keep saying they've been doing. I'm not sold that the farmed fish are that much of a harmful thing to the wild stocks. We haven't noticed it in our area either.

I think that people have to give it a thought. We haven't had farmed food fish from the Fraser stocks either for two years, and we're going to have to rely on something, but if they keep closing our farms, where's the fish going to come from?

A lot of people like to eat fish. I'm not one of those people who likes to cut off my nose to spite my face. We have to learn to accept changes in things because the footprint that farming fish leaves is very small, smaller than raising chickens. I hope that people will start to realize that you can't just keep blaming something and not understand what we're faced with.

We have a big bunch of other fish to fry. The seal populations are just ridiculous. The sea lion populations are just ridiculous. We don't know how far global warming is going to go on its destructive path.

I'm sure we all want to have everything the same, but it can't be that way. I have to let you know, however, that if you eat sushi and you eat salmon in Ottawa, where some of you people are, it will be farmed fish. There's a restaurant I go to once in a while. Apparently Mr. Trudeau goes there too, so he's been eating farmed fish if he's been eating salmon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Chief Smith.

We'll now go to Madam Bergeron for five minutes or less, please.

[Myriam Bergeron, Director General, Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique]

Good afternoon to the members of the committee. Thank you for having invited me.

My name is Myriam Bergeron, and I'm a biologist and the director general of the Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique, the FQSA, which represents fishers and managers of salmon rivers in Quebec, and to which management is delegated by the provincial government. We also take part in national and international conservation and promotional efforts on behalf of Atlantic salmon.

The main reason for my presence here today is our expertise in salmon management. The rigorous approach of Quebec's internationally recognized model for Atlantic salmon management allows for river-by-river detailed management of the salmon resource. At this level of management we can adjust our fishing activities and limits on the basis of resource variability, in collaboration with the provincial government, first nations and local management organizations.

The scientific models for setting target conservation thresholds for runs are complex, and annual monitoring is carried out on many rivers. In fact, the runs are counted on approximately 40 rivers each year, in addition to sampling and measurements of individuals, which are used to calculate the number of salmon required for the fall spawn. Fishers are also required to declare their catches, which allows us to track things effectively.

Catch-and-release sport fishing is becoming increasingly popular. Thanks to substantial awareness investments, we have thoroughly educated our community of fishers on best practices. Thus 90% of releases are being declared with an observed survival rate of 97%. In 2020, 69% of catches were released and we observed a 19% increase in total runs compared to the average for the past five years. Rapidly growing interest in sport fishing has also led to significant economic benefits in the regions.

I'd like to take advantage of this opportunity to mention that the addition of Atlantic salmon to the endangered species list, which is currently being studied by the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, the COSEWIC, and by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, would threaten the work being done by this network on the management and monitoring of salmon populations. Wildlife management performance requires the involvement of fishers, the salmon river management organizations, and the provincial and federal governments. Indeed, the presence of fishers generates significant revenue that is directly reinvested in resource conservation and monitoring. Correlating the promotion of sport fishing with conservation activities is clearly useful. Adding salmon to the endangered species list will not necessarily work for salmon.

The FQSA recommends the development of integrated management for Atlantic salmon, as is the case for the different species of Pacific salmon, because the threats are interrelated, not only for conservation, but also the sustainable development of these fisheries. These include environmental issues, climate change and aquaculture, as you were discussing earlier.

It's essential to pull together and work with the various levels of government to design flexible management frameworks suited to regional realities by applying the principles of subsidiarity and sustainable development. Even though Atlantic salmon populations have stabilized, it's important to take action now by investing in effective management methods, as was the case for Pacific salmon species.

Thank you once again for having invited me to appear this afternoon. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

There was a little bit of time saved there. We appreciate that.

[Myriam Bergeron]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll now go to questions.

We'll go to Mr. Arnold first, for six minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank all of the witnesses for being here today for this study.

Mr. Farrell, I want to start with you. I have a series of questions I'd like to go through, so please keep the answers brief. If you have anything further to provide on these questions, perhaps we can get it in writing afterwards or at another time.

You've undertaken work to examine the relationship between PRV and HSMI. I'm aware that researchers in one part of the world keep abreast of the work of other researchers elsewhere in the world. They're examining similar or scientific questions.

Is it correct that you keep abreast of what's happening elsewhere in the world?

[Anthony Farrell]

Yes. I try my best to do that.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Have researchers in Norway established a cause-and-effect relationship between PRV and HSMI?

[Anthony Farrell]

They have for the Norwegian strain of PRV, which is different from the British Columbia strain. I think everybody is now acutely aware that different strains of viruses exist worldwide for COVID, and they do for PRV, too.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Are you aware of any challenge studies of the PRV in Norway that resulted in the death of experimental animals or fish?

[Anthony Farrell]

No, I can't speak to that.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Do you know if the laboratory challenge studies in Norway demonstrated that PRV infection impacted the swim performance in fish?

[Anthony Farrell]

To my knowledge, nobody has ever tested the swim performance in Norway of a deliberate PRV infection. I don't think anybody has actually tested the swim performance.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Has any of your research also subjected PRV-infected fish to the swim test? I think you just said you're not aware of any, but is that correct?

[Anthony Farrell]

The first thing is that all the questions you've asked me previously were to do with the Norwegian strain of PRV and Norwegian strains of Atlantic salmon. Now we're switching over to tests that I've done with the B.C. strain of PRV and both juvenile Atlantic salmon and juvenile sockeye salmon.

In those tests, we infect them and then we follow them for many weeks post-infection. As part of the testing, we chase the fish to exhaustion. This would take a period of 10 minutes. If any of the committee members were to do a stress challenge test in a cardiologist's lab, you'd jump on a treadmill and my guess is you'd probably last no more than six minutes before you'd have to tell the guy to stop increasing the plane.

Yes, we stress the fish and we challenge its cardio-respiratory system, but we do not do the classic swim test that Dr. Roly Brett pioneered for swimming salmon in treadmills and that we've used for many other things.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Would you expect an impact on the physiological performance or survival in B.C., in order to demonstrate impacts of the disease that the Norwegians have not been able to demonstrate in the lab in Norway? Would you expect you'd be able to quantitate that experience here?

[Anthony Farrell]

I'm sorry. I don't follow that question.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'll move on.

Do you expect that all diseases should result in a reduction of swim performance, and if so, is it routine to demonstrate the impacts on swim performance to establish a cause-and-effect relationship with the disease?

[Anthony Farrell]

You can measure any physiological performance you want, but if you have a virus that targets red blood cells and targets the heart and targets the skeletal muscle, a simple hypothesis is that swim performance would be challenged. A simple test would be that they wouldn't be able to get to a maximum oxygen consumption. Those are the sorts of things that we do.

It's a line of least resistance. We could go and investigate PRV until the cows come home and I'd be long retired by then.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I have one final quick question.

I believe you referred to that you would have been involved with part of the strategic salmon health initiative. Was that the next phase, phase three, that hasn't moved forward? Is that what you were referring to?

[Anthony Farrell]

No. I think Dr. Miller-Saunders and I have moved in different directions. Having listened to your questions to her a few weeks ago, I would say that she did not take any account of the information that has been generated in the same building as her with deliberate infections of PRV.