Evidence of meeting #31 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was management.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Is that what you referred to when you said you believe some of the peer-reviewed info is being ignored?
Professor, Tier I Canada Research Chair in Fish Physiology, Conservation & Culture, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
You're absolutely correct in that.
Conservative
Professor, Tier I Canada Research Chair in Fish Physiology, Conservation & Culture, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
I think there are two studies, one with Atlantic salmon and one with sockeye salmon, that were done in collaboration with the virologists. In neither of those studies, which followed the progression of PRV, that it was there in the fish for up to 21 weeks, could we find any sustained or major change in their cardio-respiratory performance. You have the disease, you're a carrier, but as best as we could test, and I think the test was as comprehensive as can be done and that have been done anywhere in the world, we are not seeing major changes or sustained changes from these viral infections. I think there are only three such tests that have been done and two of them are from our labs.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Arnold.
We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for six minutes or less, please.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses who are our guests today.
I'll start with you, Chief Smith.
You support finfish aquaculture in your area. What was or is the state of wild salmon runs in your territory?
Tlowitsis First Nation
We don't have huge runs of wild salmon. We have some small fish-bearing streams. We depended on Knight Inlet, which was a fairly substantial run and of course, Johnstone Strait, where the Fraser River stocks went through.
It's never been a big thing right where our community is.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
What I'm hearing from you is that you believe there are spots along the coast that actually could support open-net aquaculture without doing harm to passing or resident fish.
Is that what I heard you say?
Tlowitsis First Nation
Yes. I think you could put it everywhere. I don't think they're harming wild stocks at all. I think that's a made-up thing from some people who just don't like fish farms.
When I ask people about fish farms, they say that they just don't like them. Well, that's not an answer. We're providing food and sustenance for some of the people who can't get wild stocks. Even when we have a huge run of sockeye in British Columbia, it never gets to Toronto or Ottawa. There's never enough.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you for that.
Ms. Bergeron, we've heard about the salmon management program in Quebec. The stream-by-stream or river-by-river strategy has worked very well for you, from the sound of things. Are you aware of the different reaction of Atlantic salmon versus Pacific salmon?
We heard, for instance, that in the early days of finfish aquaculture in B.C., they tried to use the wild Pacific salmon, but that didn't work out so well because those fish really didn't behave or thrive well in an open-net environment.
Are there some specific differences between Atlantic and Pacific salmon that would account for our Pacific salmon being more at risk?
Director General, Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique
Are you asking me which of the two is at greater risk in an aquaculture setting?
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Yes, I mean the risk that aquaculture poses, I suppose, to Atlantic salmon versus Pacific salmon.
Director General, Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique
To my knowledge, the risks are relatively similar. I'm talking about the risk of disease or the deterioration of certain wildlife habitats near the rivers.
We don't practise open net aquaculture in Quebec. However, in the Maritimes, a drastic decrease in wild Atlantic salmon populations occurred after some open-net aquaculture facilities were introduced.
I don't know what the sensitivity differences might be between the different species of salmon, but salmonids are very sensitive to their environment.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you for that.
Mr. Farrell, you were talking about sublethal infections, diseases and toxins. When you studied those, did you study them individually or did you also look at the cumulative effect of any combinations of diseases, toxins or infections?
Professor, Tier I Canada Research Chair in Fish Physiology, Conservation & Culture, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
The basic design of an experiment is to change one variable at a time. You have to do the one variable first. Then you can look at the cumulative things.
We did a neat little twist with our one variable. We introduced the PRV into the sockeye salmon and the Atlantic salmon. After the virus established itself for several weeks, we took the oxygen level of the water and we progressively reduced it and reduced it and reduced it in a short-term period. Then we asked how well they tolerated the hypoxia. Well, if your blood and your heart are not very good, you're not going to tolerate hypoxia. You wouldn't try to climb Mount Everest, for example. We found that they were unaffected compared with the sham controls. We have looked at mixtures, but only in what I would call the shorter term.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Hardie. Your six minutes are up.
We will now go to Mr. Trudel for six minutes or less, please.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here.
I'd like to thank you too, Ms. Bergeron. In fact, most of my questions are for you.
At the previous meeting, which you did not attend, I mentioned that I was not a salmon fisher. However, I know that catch management and accounting by the ZECs is important.
I personally fish for trout in lakes or ZECs. My father-in-law goes fishing in the rivers of the Matapédia region, with which you are no doubt familiar, and in the Sainte-Florence area, where he goes in September. Let's just say he brings us some fish.
I know that fish quota management is rather strict in Quebec and that it works rather well.
Based on your experience, because I'm obviously not here to speak about mine, do you have in mind any examples of federal programs or federal salmon management measures that resemble those in Quebec, but that are ineffective and that we ought not to adopt?
Director General, Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique
It's true that in Quebec the situation for salmon fishing and fishing in general is very specific, given that fishery management is a power that is largely delegated to the provincial government.
I also think that this delegation of power and the creation of networks of not-for-profit organizations like ZECs and wildlife reserves, which are locally responsible for managing the areas, are clearly effective at managing the resource sensitively.
As for those aspects that the federal government might well learn from, it's an interesting avenue that allows us to divide the management of the areas in question into zones that are biologically compatible with Atlantic salmon.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
You spoke briefly earlier about collaboration with first nations for fisheries conservation and management.
Could you tell us more about it and explain exactly how the Quebec experience could serve as a model that could provide some ideas that could be applicable to Pacific salmon?
Director General, Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique
First of all, we investigate the status of salmon populations in a given river on the basis of thresholds calculated to ensure that yearly reproduction rates make the species sustainable. We calculate a river's productivity every year. This allows us to categorize how it fits into the various health classifications that will determine whether certain fisheries need to be opened or closed.
It's an interesting model to use because depending on the status of the population, only traditional fishing or sport fishing might be allowed. If a population is in very good health, there could even be commercial fishing.
The collaboration with first nations respects their ancestral rights and their community needs, while allowing the development of sport fishing, which provides significant regional benefits.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
It also works very well. Based on my experience with trout in the ZECs where I go fishing, things are extremely well managed and it's even a bit frustrating. Some lakes are accessible for only one day during each fishing season. With cottages on the shores of some lakes, it's clear that the lakes are full of fish. However, to protect the species, they can only be fished at certain times or on certain days during the summer. What works well for trout is no doubt also good for salmon. The rules are more or less the same.
Apparently, the recording of salmon catches is done in a rather unique way in Quebec. Can you tell us how collaboration with fishing communities and organizations in the field is the key to managing and protecting salmon?
Director General, Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique
The roles, responsibilities and mandates of each of the field organizations to which salmon management is delegated are well structured through complex regulations, under agreements that provide them with the tools they need to perform their managerial role.
This collaboration is therefore very important, because these organizations keep an eye on the river, which they know well. They can even make decisions on fishery management and determine catch opportunities that are consistent with the natural variability of what is happening on the river. This sometimes allows us to take the decision-making out of the office towers and place it directly in the field. This collaboration between the departments and legatee organizations is essential and works very well.
Liberal