Evidence of meeting #4 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mi'kmaq.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:30 p.m.
Liberal
October 26th, 2020 / 6:30 p.m.
Conservative
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Just to follow up on Mr. Johns' questioning on DFO, you've basically been asking any agency that would talk to you to please come and help you get to the table and help to coordinate these conversations, not only among harvesters but in communities.
I want to follow up on Mr. Barron's comments about how you called for a coalition to start. Just to be clear, there was no dialogue with DFO or the minister's department. No one actually followed up with you and thought that this was a good idea and that maybe they should start a conversation like this.
6:30 p.m.
Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
I didn't say there was no coalition; I said there is a coalition of fishing associations that have been working together since October of 2019, and we're trying to get the minister to come to the table with us as an industry.
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
That's the way I understood it. Sorry. That's right. Okay.
Do you think if those conversations had started back in 2019, what happened here recently would have happened? Since dialogue would have already started, do you think that would have helped in getting people to the table and using it as an example?
6:30 p.m.
Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
I definitely think that things wouldn't have escalated in the manner they have now if conversations had started. This falls solely on the lack of guidance or governance from DFO.
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Have you heard anything from DFO on why they didn't want to interact, why they either stepped back or weren't engaging? Was this new to them?
Either one of you can answer that.
Did anybody else on the east coast take this kind of approach?
6:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I could speak to that.
We were told that the mandate was for nation-to-nation negotiations. We were not considered a stakeholder and wouldn't be involved in any of those talks. Although we were told for a number of months that DFO would try to facilitate some dialogue with various first nations in Atlantic Canada and Quebec, that didn't happen.
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Okay.
We'll shift gears a little here.
Talking about resources, I'm a farmer as well, but on the Prairies. You're always looking after your resources, trying to protect them so you have next year's crop.
Do you have any reports on how the stocks are doing right now? Is the fishing that's going on right now sustainable? If it were to drop and all of a sudden you noticed we were in a crisis, how long would it take to bring those stocks back? What would have to be done?
6:35 p.m.
President, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
That's a good question.
That depends on how bad the stock got. If we saw a decrease of 20% to 25%, we would have to look at some sort of new conservation measure.
When we did the buyback and the reduction of traps in 2009-10, in some areas some of our LFAs were suffering 20% to 25% reduction of catches, as Mr. MacPherson mentioned earlier, so we took the initiative then to try to put in new conservation measures. It depends on what shape the stock is in and how far it falls. We would have to base it on that, on whatever science is available at the time.
6:35 p.m.
Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
To add a little to what Mr. Jenkins said, with the fishing that's going on right now, depending on how that resource is handled or managed, we're not going to see immediate effects because it takes seven to nine years for a lobster to reach the catchable, marketable size. If anything truly detrimental is being done now, we're not going to see the effects until further down the road. There may be some short-term effects, but it's going to take a lot longer to see the effects of what's happening right now.
6:35 p.m.
Conservative
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Mazier. That's five minutes. They don't take long to pass when we're having fun.
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Thank you, and I would like to thank the witnesses for their testimony.
Mr. Barron, could you forward me the correspondence? The last correspondence I received was from the president of the Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association. I've received no such correspondence in the past few weeks.
I want to talk to you a little about hearing from the fishing associations. I've been hearing quite a bit that the biggest concerns of the fishing associations are making sure of the long-term sustainability of the lobster industry and all the different industries, as well as a need for transparency.
Would you say that those are the top two concerns of the fishing associations? If there's a third, would you be able to elaborate on what I've missed?
6:35 p.m.
Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
I will have no problem having our staff forward you that correspondence again.
As for the transparency and the resource, they are of the utmost importance to any fishermen's association, and I will have it be known that Chief Terry Paul has reached out. He's been quite busy with the election and stuff. He's going to look to have a sit-down with the associations here in Cape Breton. I'm extremely looking forward to having those negotiations—or, sorry, discussions.
As for a third point, I can't really say right now, but transparency and protecting the resource are of the utmost importance.
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
If there were a proposed way in which all of the Mi'kmaq fisheries, not just the moderate livelihood one, but also the food and ceremonial and.... If all of that were transparent and scientists were saying that because of the small level of this fishery—less than 1%—there wouldn't be damage to the overall industry, would it be something that you'd be able to support?
6:35 p.m.
Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
At this time, I really can't answer that question without actually seeing any scientific facts in front of me.
6:35 p.m.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Okay.
I've heard from both witnesses—and feel free to answer this—that the fisheries associations have always said that they want a seat at the table. We've heard from the Mi'kmaq that because they have a constitutional right, they don't feel that's appropriate legally.
I'm wondering, if you had a spot at the table, what the crux of the argument would be to government. What would you say on behalf of the fishermen's associations that we need to consider in moving forward on a moderate livelihood study?
6:35 p.m.
Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
Again, until negotiations or discussions actually start, I really don't have a lot to add to that, because those discussions have to be had. We have to be put in a room together so those discussions can happen and we can see what each party involved actually has in mind.
6:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
We would echo that response, and I think it's just human nature. Without information, people always assume the worst, so I think that's part of the challenge we're all going through now.
6:40 p.m.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Would you say the fact that the Sipekne'katik and the Potlotek management plans haven't been sent to the fisheries associations is one of the biggest obstacles in terms of getting fisheries associations' support on these mandates that the Mi'kmaq have?