Fisheries Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I am going to ask a quicker question and then allocate the remainder of my time to my colleague, Madame Desbiens.

One thing I'm trying to understand—and this has been asked in many different ways by some of my colleagues—is how allocating to the offshore fishery, corporatising this fishery, will be of benefit of our moving forward with the sustainable fisheries.

We know that the inshore fishers, local fishers, are the ones who understand best what's happening out on the water. They're better able to provide the data required for us to able to determine the best steps forward. They're able to provide observations like the size of the fish and so on—vital information for the best decisions forward. Also, they're the ones who are invested in the sustainability of the fisheries.

We know from past practices that much of the reason we find ourselves in the position we are in is the fact that we had those who were not invested in the coastal communities, who were not invested in the sustainability of local fisheries, making decisions that were poor.

I just want to get your thoughts on how to not repeat this pattern of behaviour where we are setting local communities and local fishers up for failure. Instead, how do we set up sustainable fisheries by using local fishers? Why are we not doing that here?

[Adam Burns]

The minister's decision did indeed transition some of the previous offshore quota to indigenous groups as well as the gulf shrimp harvesters.

The minister indicated that her view is that the important thing is that the offshore fleet is crewed and owned by Canadians in coastal communities. Certainly we collaborate and work with the fishing industry, whether it be small inshore vessels and the fleet representatives of those small inshore vessels or with the offshore fleet in order to undertake a variety of data gathering exercises and indeed full fish stock surveys, depending on the particular fishery.

We work closely with the fishing industry throughout the spectrum of vessel sizes and geographic locations on the sustainable management of the fishery. The observation that I would make on that is that all of the sectors are very focused on the sustainable management of the fishery and the long-term success of their operations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron. That's your time.

We'll now go to Mr. Small for five minutes or less, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm looking at the historical allocations here, Mr. Burns.

The offshore is 74.22%. I'm not arguing with your methodology or anything, but over here, I have a graph that shows 40% offshore in 1978 and 60% inshore.

The redfish quota is like a game of musical chairs. Is it a quota that's ever been structured between inshore and offshore? Has it ever been fixed and how did you come up with the...? History is history. It can't be a snapshot of one year—1994.

How did you come up with the historical allocation? If there was a number of 60% for the inshore back in 1978, that should be a factor in what you would call a historical allocation, should it not?

[Adam Burns]

The structure of the fishery certainly evolved over time. The minister's decision and the relative changes to the various fleet shares that were part of her announcement related to the allocation key that was in place at the time the fishery was put under moratorium in 1994.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Okay. I just had to ask that question, that's all, because numbers are numbers.

When will harvesters know what their allocations are going to be? They have to gear up.

Is it going to be mid-June or July 1, like the northern cod announcement that comes out usually about that time? Is it going to be timely?

Is your department making strides to announce quotas and allocations earlier? I mean, in the last five or six years, it's been unbelievable how late the announcements have been coming out.

How soon will various fleets know how much redfish they're going to have for 2024?

[Adam Burns]

The fleets themselves know the percentage of shares that they'll be getting now, based on the minister's announcement.

The consultations will occur next week and the minister will take a decision, informed by those consultations, after that.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

You have 25% here, basically, for the mobile otter trawlers and the shrimp fleet combined, pretty much.

Is it possible that you could give them their full 25% of the maximum quota allocation, if some other fleet sector is not ready to prosecute it and this fleet is?

There's a market for bait, of course. This year I'm hearing talk of squid imported from Argentina being sold to Atlantic crabbers for over $3 a pound. There are $2-dollar-a-pound mackerel from Norway. This doesn't have to be, when redfish has been proven to work so well.

Is there any way that you can expedite the allocation for the inshore fleet to support their coastal communities?

[Todd Williams]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for that question.

I think it's important to recognize that next week, we are seeking the views of harvesters. We know that some will be ready to fish immediately. We know others won't. We want to maintain flexibility, be adaptive and pivot where need be, and respond to the interests of those harvesters that are ready.

We know in phase one, there will be some adjustment from year one to year two, and then into phase two.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Will it be an IQ fishery or an index fishery?

[Todd Williams]

We're going to look at a number of options, and I want to hear the views of those stakeholders and those harvesters to see what they have. It might be different based on the fleets, as well, and their situation.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Small.

We'll now go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes or less, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Burns, unfortunately, opening the redfish fishery may not yield the desired results because of what I was telling you earlier about markets and resource processing, among other things.

Will you commit to recommending other options to the minister to help the shrimper fleet in particular, which is the most affected, because of the decline in the shrimp biomass?

[Adam Burns]

Right now, we don't have the mandate to provide that kind of assistance. However, we're working with the other departments to ensure that the programs are available.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Burns, you are an assistant deputy minister, you have a team, and it is your job to do that.

Are you going to look at other options if the redfish fishery unfortunately does not go as planned?

[Adam Burns]

All I can tell you is that, right now, we don't have the mandate to establish that kind of program. However, we're working to ensure that existing programs are available to fishers.

In addition, we're working to implement the decisions the minister makes regarding the redfish fishery and the quotas allocated to shrimpers.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to give my time back to Mr. Kelloway.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

How much time do I have? I have three minutes.

Let's stay with MP Cormier's line of questioning. We'll go beyond the economic assistance with respect to fishers.

Are there any tools or regulatory changes that the minister and DFO could put in place to help shrimpers lower the cost burden of their work?

[Adam Burns]

My colleague Sylvain Vézina could speak to that in more detail, but we've certainly been working with the shrimp fleet on various policy flexibilities that might be able to assist the industry in adjusting and adapting to the changes in the ecosystem that have resulted in this significant reduction in the shrimp biomass.

My colleague can speak in more detail to that, if you'd like.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Can you elaborate on that, please?

[Sylvain Vézina]

Some of the measures allow quota shares to be transferred to other boats. It can be as much as 100% of the shares, which makes each fishing trip more profitable. There's also what we call collective fishing. This allows a number of fishers to get on the same boat in order to reduce costs. Those are the main measures we're offering at the moment.

We're also listening to fishers. We're willing to be flexible, as much as we can, to help them.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I lost a bit in the translation, so you may have touched upon this. On January 26, I think, the minister instructed officials to be more flexible with shrimp licence-holders, allowing them to twin up.

I'm not sure if you brought that up in your answer, because I lost a bit in the translation, but I wonder if you or people here, on Zoom and in person, can elaborate on that in terms of the practice and the benefits of potentially doing that.

[Sylvain Vézina]

Mr. Burns, would you like to respond?

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Please, go ahead, Sylvain.