Fisheries Committee on Feb. 29th, 2024

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That was going to be my next question.

Aside from increasing the quota, what kind of assistance do you need? Do you need help with licence buybacks, loan guarantees or programs, for instance? We're not just talking about captains, but also deckhands and factory workers. I'm talking about everyone who depends on shrimp.

What do you want to see in an assistance plan? What do you need?

[Jean Lanteigne]

Should things not change, we believe that virtually no shrimp industry in Atlantic Canada would be able to continue to operate. We'd then have to look at a licence buyback program.

We've started to work with our fishers on that. These fishers are going to do everything they can to try to survive, because this fishery is important to them. If it doesn't work, we'll have to set up a licence buyback program. We'll also have to go back to the drawing board, go back to previous years and find an agreement with the department. As you just said, it may help resolve the situation of people who own a fishing business, but what about the deckhands? What will happen to them?

This week we heard Mr. Burns say that he was working with other departments. Offering employment insurance benefits during the first year is not a panacea. In my opinion, the plan really has to be redone and we have to work with the department to give those redfish allocations to the people who need them.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Lanteigne.

I will now turn to Mr. Element, but Mr. Lanteigne can add his comments if he wishes.

The redfish fishery is supposed to open on May 15. Whether you're entitled to 25,000 tonnes, 50,000 tonnes, or 100,000 tonnes, it doesn't matter if you can't catch, process, and sell that product. Mr. Lanteigne started talking about it, but I'd like to give you an opportunity to comment on it, Mr. Element.

What other type of assistance could we think of to help the industry, to help these people get through these difficult times and to hope that one day the shrimp fishery will be back and that some of these people will still be in the industry at that time?

[Patrice Element]

I think the main problem isn't necessarily the quota we have this year, but the one we won't have in three or five years. This has been repeated, and it's been recognized by most industry stakeholders, both fishers and processors. There's a market and a harvesting and processing capacity to be developed in this fishery.

As Mr. Lanteigne mentioned—and this is something that we have also been saying for a number of years on the Quebec fishers' side—you have to start gradually, to be able to develop and fish in a sustained and environmentally responsible manner. On the processing side, they have to equip themselves to process in large quantities and develop markets.

As Mr. Lanteigne said, our people want to continue to fish, to do what they like and what they do well.

In addition to what Mr. Lanteigne mentioned, in the extremely difficult context of the last two years, if we manage to harvest enough redfish to be able to continue in the long term, we will certainly have to think about transitional measures to help us survive.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That's why, Mr. Element and Mr. Lanteigne, it will be important to quantify these things, not just for us, the committee members, but so that everyone hears what you need.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

That's actually your six minutes right there. If the witnesses wish to reply in response to further questions, they're able to do that.

We'll move on now to MP Desbiens.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank my colleagues around the table for allowing me to begin this emergency study on the crisis among shrimpers in my area and in Acadia.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for joining us. We appreciate it. I also know that a lot of people are listening to us.

Mr. Element, you talked about the redfish fishery as a new fishery. A new fishery means a new perspective, a new way of doing things, for you and for the department.

Is that what you mean by a new fishery, with new quotas that aren't based on historical shares, for example?

[Patrice Element]

Yes, exactly.

In its New Emerging Fisheries Policy, Fisheries and Oceans Canada defines new fisheries as, “Fisheries involving new species and/or stocks that are not utilized or not fully utilized, and not currently covered by a management plan.”

I'm not a legal expert, but obviously redfish meets all of those criteria. So Fisheries and Oceans Canada did not have to respect the principle of historical shares. This is obviously a new fishery.

This is a choice that the government has made, that Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the minister have made, for reasons that, frankly, we have no idea about. In our minds, this defies all logic and practically all the criteria and policies that Fisheries and Oceans Canada has established.

It is indeed in that sense that we were talking about a new fishery. It's not just our opinion; it's actually a new fishery, so it should be treated as a new fishery. Once this fishery starts, we'll have to review, rethink and redefine the way we do things.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

You're talking about transitional measures. From what I hear, redfish isn't the Klondike. You can't just snap your fingers and suddenly break even with redfish. You need a serious marketing plan. New money will probably have to be invested as well.

What do you think the priority transitional measures should look like?

[Patrice Element]

Mr. Lanteigne can add to my answer, but I'll start by saying that we have fishers who have gone through very difficult years. The fisheries sector is, by definition, a variable sector. There are good years and there are bad years. It usually balances out. In the case of shrimpers, however, the last two years have really been very difficult. It's reasonable to expect that people will be able to get through bad years and hope for better days. In our case, we've just had two extremely difficult years, and we expect 2024 to be the same. Whether in the fishing industry or elsewhere, no business can run deficits equivalent to a quarter or half of its revenue and hope to survive.

Investments will indeed have to be made in both the harvesting sector and the processing sector, and we hope that the various levels of government will be there to help us.

There's also the fact that the accounts are empty. At the moment, many fishers are technically bankrupt, I would say. But we have to take steps to ensure that, when redfish fishing and redfish processing become a sustainable and lucrative industry, our people, both in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada, will still be there to fish for it.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Do you want to add anything, Mr. Lanteigne?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

I'll pause there for a second. We're going to stop the clock.

Apparently Mr. Lanteigne lost power, possibly because of the storm taking place. We will suspend for a few minutes to see if we can get him back online.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, it's the same thing here. I think I was cut off or it froze. The same thing happened here. We just lost everything.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

You were right at the end of your six minutes, Mr. Cormier, so I'll advise the witnesses that if they wish to answer your question, they can.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

We will resume. We have Mr. Lanteigne back online again.

We'll go back to you, MP Desbiens.

[Jean Lanteigne]

I guess we forgot to pay the electricity bill here recently. There's no more money in the bank, so....

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

You have two minutes remaining.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Lanteigne, I would have liked you to add a comment. I don't know if you heard my question.

[Jean Lanteigne]

Unfortunately, I missed the question because I just rejoined you.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

What do you think the transitional measures should look like in the immediate future?

[Jean Lanteigne]

As far as redfish quotas are concerned, as long as we manage to obtain them, if we want to guarantee a certain profitability for the fishing enterprise, or at least guarantee it a minimum income to ensure its survival, there should be support and monitoring measures.

Mr. Cormier asked earlier what quota would be necessary. We don't know, because we don't know what price we would get on the market. However, support measures are needed, not necessarily to ensure a profit, but at least a break‑even point.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

It would make it possible to stay afloat, if you'll pardon the pun.

[Jean Lanteigne]

Exactly.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

There are countries that exploit redfish and have a market for it. Would it not be a good idea to follow the example of those countries, to see how they operate and how they have developed their market?

[Jean Lanteigne]

I had the opportunity to go to Iceland to see how these people work. Get this: they greeted us nicely, took us to their factory, welcomed us in their cafeteria and served us coffee, period. In other words, they thanked us for coming, but they certainly weren't going to give us their secrets.