Fisheries Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Annette Gibbons]

I won't speak to—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Let me go back. Here's what I want you to focus on.

Numerous witnesses who have appeared before the committee have pointed out that the penalty is insignificant as it relates to the crime, whether it's for elvers or others. We've had fisheries become extremely valuable—the lobster fishery, for example. Sometimes getting caught is the cost of doing business, so it's not really a deterrent.

Since it's very difficult to have fishery protection personnel in every backyard, I firmly believe that the penalties and the implications for the person doing the wrongdoing must be much higher. In the time I have left, could you give me your opinion on that, since you're the chief administrative person in the department?

[Annette Gibbons]

I think with the work we're doing on elvers, we've clearly identified an area where we need a more fulsome regulatory approach than we currently have. It's not at the level of the act, of course.

In general, I would say the minister has a very strong focus on being adaptive in the context of climate change and the impact on fisheries. She thinks a lot about the renewal of the fisheries, the new generations coming into the fishery and the opportunities for them. You heard her speak about the owner-operator side and making sure we have the right kinds of controls that we need there.

Those are some of the priorities that I would say are top of mind for the minister and the department.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before getting back to the question of foreign workers, I first want to address you, Mr. Pelletier.

We have again received more complaints about harassment and intimidation in Quebec. I wondered whether that was not a result of the fact that people may not have understood. No progress is being made; nothing is happening.

A unilingual anglophone has been appointed to the Canadian Coast Guard. Maureen Kelly was appointed to the position of Marine Superintendent. That is a position that, my goodness, requires that she deal with francophones. Do you think it is reasonable to have a person who speaks only English in your organization when it comes to serving francophones?

[Mario Pelletier]

The person you are referring to works in Sarnia. She also handles coverage of Quebec. However, she has an assistant in Quebec who is also a superintendent, who handles personnel deployed in Quebec. She has another in Sarnia, who handles the same thing in Ontario.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

That person is bilingual, so he may be able to explain to Ms. Kelly in English what is happening in Quebec in French.

[Mario Pelletier]

I would add that Ms. Kelly has started her French courses. She speaks a little French, even though she does not have the required level of competence. However, she is committed to achieving that level.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

We see the same thing with pilots. The St. Lawrence pilots may now be trained by private corporations, which means without regard for the language of work on the St. Lawrence. The St. Lawrence pilots are very worried about that. I wondered whether you had such a disturbing reading of the situation, since the St. Lawrence is an extremely complex river to navigate, particularly off Isle-aux-Coudres heading toward Quebec City. I am sure I am not telling you anything you do not already know. The pilots have been sounding the alarm to me, and I wondered what your reading of the situation was, now that the St. Lawrence pilots no longer have any say about the quality of the training received by these other pilots, whom they are obviously going to encounter on board, with oil.

[Mario Pelletier]

We are not involved in pilotage reform, but I can assure you that our maritime traffic communication services all have completely bilingual officers who are able to oversee navigation, traffic, transit of a vessel and so on.

With respect to the reform of the Pilotage Act, I cannot really comment. It would be more up to the people at Transport Canada to do that.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

We will let them know.

Ms. Gibbons, I have informed the Minister frankly of my concerns, and I speak for the fishers of Quebec.

The fishery in Quebec, apart from the lobster fishery at the moment, is in the process of extinction. I know you have not been involved for very long and I also understand that the idea of predictability has been around for a good ten or 15 years. How do you want to remedy the situation? It has to be remedied, and I hope you want to do it.

I wanted to do a study on small craft harbours. We are chatting right now, but we will soon not be needing any harbours because there will be no more boats. We have got to that point. Do you have an idea of what budget might be allocated for support, licence buy-backs, or crisis units to bring workers in quickly?

Does the Minister talk to the Minister of Immigration ? I ask that question because that minister says it is because of Mexico and the Minister says it is because of Quebec. I think that somewhere in the middle, somebody has to deal with this.

[Annette Gibbons]

Mr. Chair, there are several things that I would say in relation to what the member has raised.

I'm sorry, I should be speaking in French instead.

Regarding predictability, we have a set of scientific data and data from surveys we do, as in the case of shrimp. We have been observing a decline in shrimp stocks for the last ten years. We have committees where people from this sector can discuss changes in the situation. Regarding specific fisheries, we are holding discussions concerning changes so that fishers are able to predict what might happen.

We also do a lot of more general studies. We have just published a study on the state of the Atlantic Ocean. We produce various reports every year on the oceans that border our three coasts. The report we have just published talks about temperature trends in the Atlantic. So that is another route for the industry to obtain information—

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Ms. Gibbons, I have to interrupt you, since I have only one minute left.

[Annette Gibbons]

Okay.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I would like to ask this other question: in your budgets, are you going to release a certain amount of money in order to be able to offer financial support to the fishers who are affected right now, through licence buy-backs or other measures?

All these families are heading for the wall. While I do not want to engage in populism as my neighbours do, there are children, young people, huge numbers of families who will be affected by this, which means the economy of the Gaspé Peninsula is mortgaged to the hilt.

Since we are talking about budgets today, I want to ask you whether any support is provided in your budgets to remedy the situation in the short term, that is, before the studies and consultations, which take a huge amount of time, are finished. We have time to close all the plants and see all the boats beached if something is not done quickly. Do you understand?

[Annette Gibbons]

As the Minister said when she was here, she had discussions with people in the industry last week. She said she was going to come back.

I can provide another detail about fisheries funds, for adaptation in the fisheries sector, both for processors and for fishers. That is something the Minister said. Funds will be available for purposes that include transition from the shrimp fishery to the redfish fishery.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We will now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for Ms. Gibbons.

As you know, we conducted a study recently with the Great Lakes Fishery Commission, and I wanted to do a follow up on that. The committee recently conducted a study looking at the allocation of resources to the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. As you know, the commission has been paralyzed, for lack of a better word, around uncertainty of funding.

I know that the funding has been allocated, but my question is about one of the recommendations that came forward as a result of this study, which is that the portfolio management responsibilities and machinery of government functions for the Great Lakes Fishery Commission be transferred from DFO to Global Affairs Canada. As far as I know, the Great Lakes Fishery Commission has not received a clear response on this. I don't think we've received a clear response as a committee as to the status of this transfer.

Can you please provide an update?

[Annette Gibbons]

Mr. Chair, I'll respond in two parts.

First, on the budget funding, we do have a memorandum of understanding with the GLFC now—since November, I believe—and we've had a lot of very constructive discussions in recent months to make sure that we have a good, strong working relationship with the commission and the commissioners. I think much progress has been made there.

On your particular question around a transfer of the mandate from DFO to Global Affairs, that really is a machinery of government issue and not within the purview of DFO.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Ms. Gibbons, just to follow up on that, because we did look at it extensively, what would you recommend to the Great Lakes Fishery Commission and also to the committee members, who had this as recommendation number eight? What would you recommend then as the next steps to see this happen?

[Annette Gibbons]

This is something that is well understood within DFO and Global Affairs. We've engaged with Global Affairs on it.

At the end of the day, machinery of government decisions are the prerogative of the Prime Minister, so I don't really have any specific recommendation for you. It is not really part of my remit to do anything to move that forward.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Would the question be better posed to the minister?

[Annette Gibbons]

You would have the same response from the minister. It really is outside of DFO's—

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Okay. Well, somebody has to be able to make it happen. Perhaps the minister can apply the pressure necessary to the Prime Minister to see this move in the right direction.

Ms. Gibbons, perhaps you could provide some clarity. In my questions to the minister—and we all wish as MPs that we had more time with the minister to be able to fully understand—one thing I was confused by was the consultation process happening with the open-net pen fish farms out of the water, and what that looks like in terms of the consultation process.

My understanding of the dates, I think, is different from the minister's, so perhaps you can provide some clarity. My understanding was that March 8 was the deadline for consultations around two-year to six-year licence extensions, that March 15 was the end of consultations for phase four of the transition planning process in total, and that the current licence will expire for all....

Can you clarify, please? Provide some clarification on these dates and how far we are with the consultation process. I didn't get that clarity.

[Annette Gibbons]

Mr. Chair, there are really two separate consultation processes. Obviously, they're linked, because they're dealing with salmon farms.

The transition plan is about the future direction for the industry writ large, for the sector and what we do. The government's commitment was around transitioning away from open-net pen farms.

The licence renewals are the specific permits that allow particular activities to happen at particular sites. From a legal regulatory perspective, we need to treat those as distinct activities and to consult on them. That is why we have two different consultation exercises going on, and two different dates.

The phase four consultations refer to the transition plan consultations. The licence renewal consultations are distinct. Obviously, we're talking to the same people, but we're talking about the licence renewals separately from the transition plan.