Fisheries Committee on Oct. 7th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

That's not a point of order.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I'd like to continue, Mr. Chair, if that's possible.

Also, there's a reference from MP Small that it's not unreasonable for the minister to ignore DFO science on cod.

It's clear to me, from our side of the room, that Mr. Small—on behalf of his leader, Mr. Poilievre—was lobbying for the interests of the offshore fleet directly with the minister while he thought the inshore fleet wasn't looking, before it became politically advantageous for him and his boss to take the other side. I think, with this evidence before the committee, the minister was hearing from both the province and indeed the official opposition that the offshore fleet's access to the fishery was very important.

I will also note that our side will be sending out this material via press release in a few minutes.

Mr. Chair, I want to go back to the quota breakdown.

I think that, a lot of times—both in the media and around this table, in fact—there isn't a clear breakdown of the quota. I want to recite what I believe is the quota breakdown.

That is, 84% of the quota goes to inshore.

Is that correct?

[Adam Burns]

That's correct, yes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Ten per cent goes to indigenous harvesters.

Is that correct?

[Adam Burns]

Yes, that is correct.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Six per cent goes to the offshore fleet.

Is that correct?

[Adam Burns]

Yes, that's correct.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Okay.

We talked about the offshore fleet. It's been talked about around here.

Can you talk about some of the Canadian companies, and the men and women on those vessels who work in Newfoundland and Labrador, or who work at the processing plants? Can you talk about the level of Canadian input and identity related to those particular offshore companies?

[Adam Burns]

I wanted to note this. Earlier, I indicated that the indigenous allocations were all still available. Indeed, the Nunatsiavut government indigenous allocation is currently being fished by inshore, fixed-gear vessels from 3KL.

In terms of Canadian companies, the companies in question are all required to be majority Canadian-owned. The companies themselves have indicated that they are either entirely or nearly entirely staffed and crewed by Canadians who are from local communities in Newfoundland and Labrador, largely, in terms of this particular fishery.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

We talked earlier about offshore and the 6%. We talked about the historical connection. I would put it out there that 6% in relation to historical attachment and the impact of offshore on the men and women of Newfoundland and Labrador.... Well, it's 6%. I wasn't the best at math, but 6% seems to be a good number to keep jobs in Newfoundland and Labrador.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would tend to agree with my colleague Mr. Cormier.

I imagine that pelagic fishers, including offshore shrimp fishers, who are following the proceedings of our committee are wondering why offshore vessels are being reinstated when it has been shown that this fishing technique had messed up part of the resource decades ago. Today, instead of supporting owner-operators and boosting the local or regional economy, these boats are being put back into the water, even though we know the impact that will have. How do you at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans explain this decision?

Talk to mackerel fishers or shrimp fishers who haven't been able to convert their boats in order to fish redfish. In any case, the quotas weren't worth it. Cod fishers received financial compensation at the time. Today, however, those who were impacted by the closure of the fishery aren't getting any money. What are you telling them?

[Adam Burns]

In terms of offshore fleet management, we have very strict measures in place to ensure that their catch is within quota. Additionally, there are several rules governing fishing gear. We want to ensure that the rules are followed in order to have a sustainable fishery.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Are the rules strict enough?

[Adam Burns]

Of course, a number of rules have been put in place for the northern cod fishery. The fishing plan that's in place for the offshore fleet has a number of elements to ensure the stability of the fishery.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

The minister is telling us that she is taking action to protect the resource for future generations and that she is taking into account the opinion of the fishing industry, that is, the fishers and the people who are on the water. Do you think her decision was guided by the community and the people on the ground, or do you think it was motivated by other factors?

[Adam Burns]

The department undertook several consultations with all affected fleets, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador and environmental groups. All views were provided to the minister and incorporated into the department's advice. So we had a very good overview of all the perspectives of industry, environmental groups, and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador when we were drafting the advice and analysis that would help the minister make an informed decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm still reflecting on the new information that's going to be tabled, and I look forward to reviewing those documents.

It just really highlights to me—I'm sorry to say it, but—the consecutive Liberal and Conservative governments that continue to corporatize public resources at the detriment of local people in communities like Newfoundland and Labrador.

I will be reviewing that information and will be taking it from there. I appreciate that being tabled along with any other information of further corporatization, which is exactly the theme of what it is that we're talking about today to the detriment of the good people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

With that, I don't have enough time, so I want to talk about transparency.

We know that in 2017, prior to my becoming a member of Parliament, there was a report tabled. It talked about the importance of transparency, in particular on “stock status, reference points and management measures”, and it recommended that these be included “in the annual sustainability survey for fisheries”.

I'm not seeing that transparency in this decision. Can you speak to how this process was transparent, where this information is available to the public to clearly understand the decision-making process, and if it will be included in that annual survey that's being referenced from 2017: “Newfoundland and Labrador's northern cod fishery: charting a new sustainable future”?

Thank you.

[Adam Burns]

Certainly, the department undertook a number of concrete actions related to that report and those recommendations.

I can say that in the case of the process that was undertaken since last fall, flowing from the framework assessment that occurred in the fall, which indicated that the northern cod stock may be in the cautious zone, the department quickly held a special advisory committee meeting to begin the discussions that would help inform the potential reopening of this fishery.

Following the CSAS advice in the winter, a subsequent advisory committee meeting was held, where the full suite of the science advice that was available was presented, and broad and open discussions were held, as I mentioned, with the FFAW, with inshore harvesting interests, with the offshore sector, with environmental groups and with the province, in order to well inform this decision.

As I noted, in the minister's announcement in June, related to the reopening of this fishery, she did lay out the basis for her decision that led to the decision that she took.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Small for five minutes, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To Mr. Kelloway's point, I'll make no bones about it. I wrote to the minister several times in support of the livelihoods of harvesters in Newfoundland and Labrador and to support a much bigger quota increase than what they got, but not to change the fishery from a stewardship fishery to a commercial fishery.

As you know, it was the other side of the House, the Liberals, who lobbied to have that fishery reopened as a commercial fishery, because it would be a political win. I wasn't looking for a win in politics in terms of what would be happening with the northern cod fishery. I was looking for a win for our harvesters, our plant workers and our coastal communities that depend on it so much.

To go back to Mr. Burns, to that statement about how the minister was seeking “year-round employment” in the fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador by this mere increase of 3,000 tonnes or 5,000 tonnes, basically I guess we could say that the 3KL portion was caught in about a dozen fishing days. They fished about a dozen days altogether because they only fished for about two days a week.

Then, for a vessel like the Calvert, with 6% that is shared by Icewater, that 6% can be fished in less than a couple of weeks. You're talking about, altogether, less than 30 days of harvesting by a fraction of the people involved in the industry in Newfoundland and Labrador. How does that add up to year-round employment?

[Adam Burns]

Certainly at the current quotas, the total number of harvesting days necessary to harvest that are limited. Our view, certainly, is that we've put in place a management regime that is sustainable and that will, hopefully, result in a further increasing in the biomass and enable increases in the total quota in the coming years, which will over time increase the number of harvesting days and enable even greater removals throughout the course of the year.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Getting back to the first round of questioning here, I never did get an answer from you, Mr. Burns. The Prime Minister made a pretty big promise back in 2015. Was that a promise that he could have kept?

[Adam Burns]

Again, it's the Minister of Fisheries who makes the decisions related to the management of the fishery pursuant to the Fisheries Act. In her decision, she did, as I've noted, in her June announcement indicate that the reason she took the allocation decisions she did, including providing the vast majority to the inshore, was, however, to have some access to other fleets, recognizing that foreign offshore vessels would also be fishing outside of Canada's 200 miles and wanting to ensure there would be ongoing year-round employment from that.