Fisheries Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2024

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you. That would be very much appreciated.

I'll follow up on that.

Unfortunately, media has reported that this was not a change that would come into effect, in any way, until 2029. I saw some media reporting on that, and a very viral video by William Shatner to that effect.

Minister, I was hoping you might be able to explain how this will be a phased approach. Part of the announcement was that restocking decisions would have to be made with this final band-aid of 2029 in mind.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

As was mentioned, it was a draft transition plan. We were well aware that the work had to continue, including working even more closely with partners, such as the provincial government, if we want to move from an on-water approach to a land-based approach.

We see what is happening right now in the provinces, especially in British Columbia. That is why, as soon as the plan is in place, we will be working with the provinces to develop a more detailed plan. At least we've established a time frame, and discussions are ongoing. It was important for the industry, at least, to know whether or not it should invest in transition plans to move to a land-based approach.

According to some of the discussions I've had with representatives of aquaculture companies, the banks are extremely reluctant to invest in this area. It's very possible. That is why it is important to continue to hold discussions. There may be aquaculture sites that are just going to close, and then aquaculture could be done elsewhere. That's why there are discussions from west to east. In the east, aquaculture is under provincial jurisdiction, and some provinces have said they are ready to develop aquaculture on the Atlantic side.

Discussions will continue. We'll keep you posted on that. How the transition will take place is another consideration. There will be closures, but Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada will take care of that. So someone else is looking into it to see how things can be done.

We know there are jobs associated with this project. It puts people to work in a community. We know how, in the fisheries sector, any fishing closure has an impact on the community. When you impact fisheries, you're impacting people's bread and butter. This is always a very hot topic, which is why it is important to work with all stakeholders in the community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Weiler.

I understand that the minister is here for an hour. We'll suspend for a moment to allow the minister to leave, and I believe Mr. Burns will join us at the table for the last hour of questioning.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'd like to get started again.

I'd like to welcome Mr. Adam Burns and Mr. Niall O'Dea to the table.

We'll start off the first round of questioning.

Go ahead for six minutes or less, Mr. Small.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Chair, are there no opening remarks?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

There are no remarks.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Burns, my question is one I've been thinking about for a while.

The minister just disregarded the advice of her own scientists on reopening the commercial northern cod quota. I'm wondering if there's a chance she might reopen a commercial mackerel fishery, given that she just went against her department on northern cod.

Are we going to see a mackerel fishery in 2025?

[Adam Burns, Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Chair, no decision has been taken on the 2025 mackerel fishery. That would be a decision taken in the winter or early spring period.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

I understand your department has been conducting some science on mackerel over the past summer.

Do you have any of those results tabulated yet? Do you have any direction? Are there any improvements in the mackerel stock, based on the science you've conducted over the last couple of years?

[Adam Burns]

I don't believe there is new, peer-reviewed science available yet for mackerel. I don't have the exact schedule for the CSAS process for mackerel, but we could provide the committee with the science schedule for that.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

I'll switch to Mr. Burns. I'll switch to unit 1 redfish, where the decision was recently made to let the 4RST vessels fish in shallower water than was originally laid out. Are they going to be able to use ground trawl beyond October 31?

[Adam Burns]

Part of the minister's decision to adjust some of the bycatch measures included a change to the date when mid-water trawl would become the mandatory gear type, which has been pushed out to January 1, so yes.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Will you consider making that measure a permanent measure so that the redfish harvesters could use their ground trawl all year in 4RST?

[Adam Burns]

Following this year's fishery, we'll have a redfish advisory committee. We'll consult with the fishing industry who have participated in the fishery, and decisions for next year's fishery will be taken in due course.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

We'll revisit the last time you were here. You made a statement that the inshore cod grounds were different from the offshore cod grounds for northern cod. How did you come up with that idea?

[Adam Burns]

I'm not sure that I recall the specific statement. Certainly, fish migrate from one area of the fishing zones to another. During the summer months, the fish tend to be more inshore, and later in the year, through the winter months, they tend to be more offshore.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

No, you'd said that these grounds are different grounds, that basically the inshore fishers don't fish on offshore grounds. This year, the inshore harvesters have fished out to the edge of the continental shelf. They couldn't go any farther. Given that fact, those grounds are basically the same grounds, I was a little bit troubled to hear that.

What kind of knowledge does your department have on where inshore harvesters fish? Did you analyze the locations, the logbook data, that's submitted by the inshore fishery? If you did, you would have known that they were fishing the same grounds.

[Adam Burns]

To repeat what my colleague from DFO science said at the last meeting, the logbook data was indeed used and analyzed in the peer review process that generated the science that was the underpinning of the minister's decision.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Right on.

I have to go back and ask you again, because I've had quite a few people from back home who have brought this up to me, the fact that you said that the minister had reopened the commercial northern cod fishery because she wanted year-round employment from it. Basically, the inshore portion of that quota was taken in seven weeks. The offshore portion will be taken in a couple of weeks, and the number of people who have taken part in that harvesting and will take part in the offshore harvesting is relatively small.

How does that equate to year-round employment?

[Adam Burns]

In the minister's decision and in her statement related to that, when she spoke of year-round employment, it certainly is true that with the quota that it is right now, it does get fished at a relatively quick pace. Over time, with sustainable management, the hope would be that the biomass increases, increasing the quotas available to all fleets, which would further increase the employment and economic benefits to Newfoundland and Labrador.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Burns, where did you guys find that data from 1954 that you brought into the stock assessment? Did you find that on microfiche somewhere, or did you do an archaeological dig to dig it up?

[Adam Burns]

That would have to be a question answered by DFO science. I'm not a DFO scientist, so I don't have the specifics on that, but we can commit to getting back to you with further information.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

As you know, one of my favourite things to do is to ask you about those logbooks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr Small.

We'll now go to Mr. Cormier, for six minutes or less.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Pelletier, I want to begin by thanking you for the work you did last year to open the fishery. There was less ice than usual in the winter, but I know your teams were ready, and the contracts were signed. Fishers were very pleased with the results of their collaboration with the Coast Guard and your team.

I just want to make sure that we're ready again this year for the opening of the fishery. The ice may be a little thicker this winter.

Are you ready? Have the contracts been planned? Is everything planned so there can be an early opening again this year?