Evidence of meeting #123 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mario Pelletier  Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard
Kevin Brosseau  Former Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Adam Burns  Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Niall O'Dea  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 123 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Before we proceed, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. Please address all comments through the chair.

Before we start, I think Madame Desbiens has a statement she'd like to make.

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I simply wanted to draw your attention to the fact that a few days after receiving the first report on mental health in the Quebec fisheries world, we learned of the tragic death by suicide of Gilles Legresley of Chandler, a snow crab fisherman.

My condolences to the family, loved ones and all harvesters in Quebec and Canada.

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you for that, Madame Desbiens. I'm sure we all send our prayers to that very family at this time.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Monday, September 16, 2024, the committee is commencing its study of the mandate and current priorities of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses for the first panel.

Of course, we have the honourable Minister of Fisheries and Oceans Diane Lebouthillier. She is accompanied by Mario Pelletier, commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard, and Kevin Brosseau, former associate deputy minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Thank you for taking time to appear today, Minister. You have five minutes or less for an opening statement. You have the floor.

4:30 p.m.

Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine Québec

Liberal

Diane Lebouthillier LiberalMinister of Fisheries

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It's a pleasure to join you on the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation.

Thank you for inviting me to speak today to discuss my mandate and highlight some of the progress my department is making in areas of interest to the committee.

All of the work I'm about to discuss pertains to my ongoing commitment to advancing reconciliation, supporting coastal communities, addressing biodiversity loss and mitigating the effects of climate change.

Before I begin, however, I want to acknowledge two devastating incidents that occurred over the last two months.

In early August, a plane carrying three employees of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, or DFO, who worked at the regional science branch in Mont-Joli, Quebec, crashed during a scientific mission to Newfoundland and Labrador. One employee was killed in the accident and two other mission members were injured. This is a major loss for the DFO family and for the scientific community as a whole.

In addition, just last month, we learned that a crew member of the Canadian Coast Guard vessel Vincent Massey was lost at sea off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador.

As you can imagine, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard are a very close-knit family. These are heart-rending tragedies for us. My thoughts are with the families, loved ones and friends of those we lost, and, of course, with everyone in my department who knew them and worked with them.

As Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, I am responsible for supporting sustainable, stable and prosperous fisheries for the benefit of all harvesters, including Indigenous peoples, and for ensuring the safety of mariners in Canadian waters. I take these responsibilities very seriously.

Over the past year, I've made a series of decisions informed by scientists and stakeholders, which led to the opening of new commercial fisheries—whelk, sea cucumber and sea urchin—as well as the reopening of the redfish and northern cod fisheries. I also authorized a bait fishery for Atlantic mackerel for personal use.

Finally, I announced a new pilot program, which will study striped bass and its use as bait for lobster harvesters and as a potential fishery for future development.

Quite recently, I announced that personal-use sealing licences will be made available to potential sealers in New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island. That hunt is focused on harp and grey seals, whose populations fall within a healthy area of the application of the precautionary approach, or PA.

A limited number of new licences for personal use will be issued for 2024 to conduct this pilot activity in new areas. Each individual sealer who receives a personal use licence will be able to hunt up to six harp or grey seals.

Going forward, I encourage our partners, both at home and abroad, to open their doors to Canadian products from our sustainable commercial seal hunt.

On reconciliation, I am personally committed to working in partnership with Indigenous communities to implement the right to fish in pursuit of a moderate livelihood.

Our government is also supporting Canada's fish and seafood sector in other ways: funding repairs to critical small craft harbour infrastructure; investing in innovative technology and infrastructure; working with partners to reduce threats posed by abandoned, lost or discarded fishing gear and to find solutions to reduce future gear losses; developing the first-ever conservation strategy to support and promote wild Atlantic salmon conservation policy; and prioritizing a new review of the Fisheries Act to strengthen the protection of owner-operators and protect the fishing industry for generations to come.

My department is also working closely with provinces and territories, Indigenous partners, fishing associations and affected communities to protect and rebuild Pacific salmon stocks.

Not long ago, my department signed a progressive reconciliation agreement on fisheries resources with five First Nations in British Columbia. This two-year funding agreement provides the framework for an effective and collaborative approach to fisheries resource governance, management and planning for the five First Nations.

Another important component of my mandate is to work with provinces, territories, Indigenous communities, industry, environmentalists and other stakeholders to protect 30% of Canada's oceans by 2030. Before 2015, less than 1% of Canada's oceans were protected. Now it's over 15%, an area roughly the size of British Columbia.

With respect to the Canadian Coast Guard, our government continues to invest in the organization's fleet, land assets, infrastructure and technology.

I'm proud to report to your committee that last August, the Coast Guard and our partners at Seaspan Shipyards launched the new oceanographic research vessel at sea. The vessel will continue to provide critical oceanographic science that will help the Government of Canada address the most pressing oceanographic issues, such as climate change. The data and samples collected on board this vessel will also support Canada's domestic and international commitments to ensure sustainable management of our oceans.

In addition to this work, the Canadian Coast Guard has signed a historic agreement with the Norwegian Coast Guard to strengthen marine safety and environmental protection. It continues to advance its commitments to reconciliation by working with Indigenous groups, who are key partners in the marine search and rescue system. It responds to environmental and marine hazards by providing them with training and funding.

The Coast Guard also unveiled the Arctic strategy. This strategy is a 10-year vision that will allow the Coast Guard, in collaboration with First Nations, Inuit and Métis, to continue to provide marine safety, security, science, sovereignty and environmental protection in an ever-changing operational environment in the North.

Finally, last year was a productive year. Many new commercial fisheries were opened, new scientific data was collected to support new fisheries to come and key Coast Guard objectives were achieved.

I am grateful on a daily basis to the officials at Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Coast Guard, as well as all partners from coast to coast to coast, for the hard work we do to deliver on the government's objectives.

I am now pleased to answer your questions.

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you for that, Minister. It was a little bit over the time, but hopefully we can catch up along the way.

We'll now go to Mr. Small for six minutes or less, please.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister and her associates for appearing here today.

Minister, would you agree that the aquaculture industry is a valuable component of coastal economies, yes or no?

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

You're quite right. Aquaculture is indeed valuable. It's a food security issue.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Great. That's an excellent answer. Thank you very much.

Minister, are you aware of the importance of the oyster industry, both the commercial fishery side and the aquaculture side, to the P.E.I. economy and actually their culture and the very being of Prince Edward Island?

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Prince Edward Island's aquaculture and oyster industry does indeed support a significant economy. This year, it is experiencing particular difficulties, which are truly terrible.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Wonderful. I'm glad to hear that you're there for the oyster industry by the sounds of what you're saying here.

It was announced this summer, on July 24, that the MSX parasite had shown up in P.E.I. in three locations. Three or four weeks later, you announced some funding to support that industry. Was it half a million dollars?

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

No, it's one million dollars.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

That's over two years, yes.

I've had aquaculture industry stakeholders from the ridings of MP Casey, MP Morrissey, MP McDonald and MP MacAulay reach out to me. They're extremely concerned that the speed and the commitment from your department in addressing the MSX issue in the oyster industry of P.E.I. is lacking what they actually need.

Do you understand that this industry in Prince Edward Island could be, and more than likely will be, completely wiped out within two years?

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

I was in Prince Edward Island this summer, and I met with people in the industry. I was accompanied by my colleague Robert Morrissey.

I made a million-dollar funding announcement there. So we are working closely with the provincial government and with industry on research to see how we can help them, because the consequences—

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Do you know that this parasite completely wipes out the oyster industry wherever it shows up? It wiped it out about 20 years ago in Bras d'Or Lake, and it wiped it out up and down the eastern seaboard. It's wiped it out everywhere.

Are you aware that it will take at least three generations of oysters? How many years are in a generation of oysters?

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Yes, I am aware of the consequences of this problem and of the fact that we have not yet found a solution. I know what happened at Bras d'Or, where the entire oyster population was wiped out. It has not recovered to this day.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

I'm glad to know that you're aware, but the fine folks of Prince Edward Island are quite concerned. They're expressing to me that you haven't done enough.

Are you familiar with a groupNow, there are some people you've done quite a bit for. Compare that to $500,000 this year and $500,000 next year for an industry that, including its spinoffs, contributes close to $100 million to the economy of Prince Edward Island.

called the Atlantic Healthy Oceans Initiative?

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

No, I'm not.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

You might know them by an acronym—AHOI. Now, that's not Chips Ahoy. It's not the cookies, you know.

Are you not familiar with it?

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

I hope we won't be talking about cookies today. This is too important.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Minister, they have five employees. You just dished out $1.8 million to this AHOI group—the Atlantic Healthy Oceans Initiative. You gave $1.8 million to them and $500,000 to the entire oyster industry of Prince Edward Island. That's not showing me you really care.

Can you explain to me how that shows you care? You gave $1.5 million to a staff of five people and $500,000 to the entire oyster industry of Prince Edward Island. I can't see the logic.

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

From what I understand, as far as the Conservatives are concerned, research and development and the work of scientists are unimportant. It was never important to you. However, I can tell you that for the oyster industry, research and development are important.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

How about some R and D for the oyster industry of P.E.I.?

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I'm sorry, Mr. Small. Your time is up.

I will remind members to allow questions to be answered, please.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for six minutes or less.

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Madam Minister, we'll go to the west coast, if you don't mind.

I want to go back 12 years to October 2012 and the Cohen commission's report on Fraser River salmon. I want to check and see whether, in fact, the following is in your mandate, or at least on your radar.

Recommendation 3 in Justice Cohen's report says:

The Government of Canada should remove from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans' mandate the promotion of salmon farming as an industry and farmed salmon as a product.

This has been recognized as putting the DFO in a very difficult, conflicted situation since 2012, because there have certainly been suggestions that they have abandoned the precautionary principle in the past, in the interest of the promotion of the salmon farming industry.

I'm wondering if there has at least been any discussion, if not progress, on removing the salmon farming industry from the overview or scrutiny of the DFO, and putting it someplace where it doesn't put the DFO into a perceived conflict.

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Salmon farming is an important topic. As I mentioned at the outset, there's also a food security issue. According to the latest data published, since 2022, all wildlife species on the planet are in trouble, and we've seen a major increase in the consumption of salmon farming products.

There is work to be done to strike a balance between protecting wild salmon, food security and all aspects related to aquaculture. DFO is working with its partners to achieve this balance.