Fisheries Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2024

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I think that fishers will no longer be there to do the adapting, Ms. Lebouthillier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We will now go to Ms. Barron, for six minutes or less, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Minister.

I'm happy that you're here today. There are lots of questions we'd like to ask you.

The first one wasn't going to be on my list today, but now I have to ask it. My colleague MP Hardie was asking about the transition from open-net fish farms, and a couple of things stuck out to me.

The first thing is I felt like you were saying there is a difference between food security and the protection of wild salmon and that they were two separate things that needed to be balanced. That's what I was hearing, but I want to point out how important it is for us to recognize that protecting wild salmon is protecting food security. The two aren't polar opposites that need to be balanced. In fact, you can look at both of them, and the transition away from open-net fish farms is part of protecting wild Pacific salmon and food security.

I appreciate the questions that were asked, but I do want to highlight one of the questions about the industry not being consulted enough. We know for a fact that the industry, between July 2022 and September 2023, was consulted 52 times by the previous minister, and I believe some of that might have included you. I can't remember the exact timeline.

Just to clarify the question that was asked about the industry not being consulted enough, we know that Mowi, Grieg and Cermaq have been consulted to a much larger degree than any other stakeholders. I'm wondering if you would be able to comment on the amount of consultation that has happened with industry through the process of developing a transition plan, which, in my opinion, is not happening in a timely enough manner.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

In the past year, I visited British Columbia three times. I spent almost 21 days there working with the fishing community. I met with people from the aquaculture sector and representatives of indigenous communities. I met with people who work in the processing sector and others who work in the recreational salmon fishing industry.

Major work has been done, and we are continuing in that direction. I'm not just talking about me; a whole team supports me. For example, one person on the team is responsible for dealing specifically with issues related to British Columbia.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I want to move on to other questions, but can you confirm that industry has been consulted significantly through this process?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Yes, consultations have been held.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Minister, on the southern coast of Vancouver Island, we have lighthouses, too, including the light stations at Pachena Point and Carmanah Point. It is my understanding that, this week, staff members are being removed from these stations. We know the important role these light stations play along our coast, both for navigation and the safety of mariners. They help out in endless ways with search and rescue and emergency response operations.

As I hope you are fully aware, the entire NDP caucus, including the leader of the NDP, sent you a letter with the concerns being brought forward by west coasters about the removal of the lighthouse keepers from these lighthouses.

Minister, there was a report that came out in 2011 called “Seeing the Light”, which is quite appropriate, and it was very clear in its recommendations.

I'm wondering if you have looked at this letter and have seen the recommendation in there that very clearly articulates that consultations are required and that consultations happen with all those impacted around the lighthouses. Has that been taken into consideration?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Whether it's on the west coast or the east coast, lighthouses—I have one in my riding—and aids to navigation are important.

I will let Mr. Pelletier tell you more about that.

[Mario Pelletier, Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard]

Thank you.

Our motto at the Coast Guard is “Safety first, service always,” and obviously it starts with the safety of our people so that we can deliver the service, making sure that mariners are safe.

We have a situation at those two light stations where the ground is unstable. We have a geotechnical report—

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Pelletier.

I so appreciate the information. I want to hear your answers. I'm wondering if we could change the order, perhaps, that I can ask you for more clarification once the second hour comes and our minister has gone.

I want to ask the minister, and perhaps you could provide some additional feedback, of course, through the chair, if the consultation has happened with the light keepers themselves, as is stated clearly in the Senate report that came out. Are they being consulted? All those impacted, are they aware of this plan? It sounds like they're being pulled out and there has been no consultation with all those impacted.

I want to get some clarification from the minister. Thank you so much.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Since you are talking about technical details, I will let Mr. Pelletier answer the question.

If you're asking me if I have personally consulted lightkeepers, the answer is no. If you want a more complete answer about people's concerns and safety, Mr. Pelletier will be able to answer you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

If Mr. Pelletier is going to answer, he'll have to send it in writing because we've gone a little bit over time.

We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing. I appreciate the remarks you delivered last night at the Salmon Forever reception. I hope that the support you expressed in those remarks will result in meaningful actions for Pacific salmon.

Minister, the Fraser River is a major artery for Pacific salmon, which is why it's so important to combat illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing on the Fraser system. During your tenure now as leading DFO, what has been the trend of DFO's enforcement activities on the Fraser River? Have DFO's conservation protection enforcement activities on the Fraser increased, decreased or stayed the same?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Illicit, unreported and unregulated fishing, or illegal fishing, is unacceptable to our government. We are committed to conserving fish stocks and enforcing the Fisheries Act. Targeted measures are taken on a sector-by-sector basis. It's probably not perfect, as the territory is huge, but the work is being done.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Have the activities increased, decreased or stayed the same during your tenure?

[Kevin Brosseau, Former Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Chair, as the minister mentioned, the enforcement operations on the Fraser River, on the west coast, are certainly a priority.

I think, to be able to categorize it as going up or down, based on the time that the minister has been the minister, it might be easier for us to provide you statistics on hours patrolled, etc. We can do that through you, Chair.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I would ask for it in writing, by year, for the committee.

Thank you.

Minister, in your last appearance, in March—I believe it was your last appearance—you told the committee, “zebra mussels are found everywhere in Canada”. That statement was clearly false and caused acute concern amongst conservationists and organizations that are fighting against aquatic invasive species in Canada.

Western Canadians are wondering how they can trust you to protect fish habitat when you believe they are already infested with the species that we must fight.

Minister, will you finally acknowledge that preventing the spread of zebra and quagga mussels in western Canada is essential and ensure western Canada receives its fair share of federal resources to prevent aquatic invasive species?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I didn't have access to the interpretation for the last part of what you said.

Could you just repeat the last part of your question?

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Will you finally acknowledge that preventing the spread of zebra mussels and quagga mussels in western Canada is essential, and ensure that western Canada receives its fair share of federal resources to prevent aquatic invasive species?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Our government is prioritizing its participation in the fight against all invasive species. DFO takes this work very seriously when it comes to both zebra or quagga mussels and green crab. The department is doing important work, as the presence of these invasive species seriously impacts our communities.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I question how seriously your department takes this. I was recently provided a letter that had been sent to you from the Okanagan Basin Water Board, dated October 18, 2023. Your department responded on your behalf on October 17—one year to respond to a letter that simply had two requests. I would suggest to you that you and your ministry have failed to take the risk of aquatic invasive species as a serious threat to western Canada.

I want to move on to the next piece regarding commercial catch monitoring. Last year the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development found that DFO had failed to “collect the dependable and timely [information about fish] catch that it needs to substantially manage commercial marine fisheries and protect Canada's fish stocks” from overfishing.

Why has DFO failed so badly to monitor commercial harvests?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I would like to go back to your first question and say that Canada is investing millions of dollars across the country to address invasive species and their impact on the environment.

With respect to fisheries monitoring, starting in 2023, Canada is investing $30.9 million over five years, in addition to ongoing funding of $5.1 million, to implement the fisheries monitoring policy.

The territory is huge, but the work is being done.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

That is not being done, according to the monitor.

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Madame Minister, to FOPO.

Madame Minister, since it was brought up earlier, MSX, as you are well aware, exists in every oyster-growing region in North America. It's not new, and it's being dealt with.

I want to thank you for taking the time to come in and meet with the industry and me extensively when it was first detected.

The key priority at that time was to ensure continued access to the market, and the government, through its agency, stepped up and addressed that, through CFIA, to ensure the market because, at that time, our sister provinces, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, wanted to stop exports from going through until we made a determination.

I'm saying that, Madame Minister, because in P.E.I., the oyster industry is jointly managed between the P.E.I. government and the federal government. In 1987, DFO signed an agreement with the Government of P.E.I. to co-manage the oyster fishery because it's inland waters and bays. You were there when it first came about, but on October 8, P.E.I.'s Conservative minister stated that the oyster industry is “thriving”—that was two weeks ago—and that it required no assistance from the government to go on.

Our position is much different. You said very clearly that you'd be there for the industry when the industry decides what supports it needs. This is an industry that is not always on the same page, and to this date, we are still waiting to see exactly what plan will be formulated to ensure that this industry grows, but it does not wipe it out. We're having a fall fishery this fall. It's going not badly, but there have to be steps put in place for the future. However, unlike the provincial minister, you were there for the industry and stood with it, and we're committed to going there.

I want to go to another issue. I was pleased when you announced, this morning or yesterday, that you would be authorizing personal use sealing licences for P.E.I. Could you give us a bit of a number on what you hope this harvest may do because we've heard so much in this committee about efficient harvesting of this resource, which seems to be growing in abundance. Would you care to expand on just exactly what it means?