Fisheries Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2024

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

That's correct.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you so much.

Are you aware of the impacts on coastal communities, mariners and west coasters of these lighthouse keepers being removed from these lighthouses this week?

Could you tell me a bit about those impacts that you're aware of and why this continues to be allowed to happen with those impacts?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

In my opinion, we have to consider the whole issue of lightkeeper safety. In terms of new technologies for aids to navigation, this is an evolving field. These new technologies are now safer.

Yes, I am aware of the problem, but we have to take into account the fact that the field is evolving, as well.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

You talked about technology. Do you feel that the new, automated navigation systems will allow people's screams to be heard when they are...? We've heard of multiple instances of people dying along the coast, who were crying for help and had their cries heard by the people who were in these lighthouses.

Do you think an automated system will be able to do the job of people who have been doing this work for generations in these lighthouses?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Even though we've operated a certain way for several generations, the world is changing. There are new technologies to provide aids to navigation. What's important to me is to ensure the safety of people navigating the waterways.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

Do you feel that the new technology will be able to provide the same level of security that lighthouse keepers have for generations? I would like to get that in writing, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for five minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming. I think you'll be surprised to learn that I'm going to ask you about your recent letter on the elvers.

In March, when you appeared before the committee as you had shut the season down, you said, “I want to assure you that the fishery will be open in 2025. There will be regulations.” The statement you were making at the time was that you couldn't have the fishery open unless you had regulations in place.

Will regulations be in place before the opening of the 2025 season?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

The elver fishery will reopen in 2025, and the rules will be clearer.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

In the recent letter you sent to the fishery, you were basically telling the 12 licence-holders—eight of whom are the commercial ones who, for 30 years, have actually created and built this industry—that you're going to expropriate 75% of their quota and give it to others without compensation. You're ignoring the willing buyer/willing seller policy your department has yet again.

If you are going to take 75% of their quota and give it to others—not for conservation, but just to give it to others—will you abide by the willing buyer/willing seller policy?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Concerning the elver fishery, I agree that access to licences should be expanded to enable economic prosperity, especially in rural regions.

I hope you also believe in the importance of this objective. We have to develop the economy and give people access to licences.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That, actually, is not what's going to happen because those who work for the commercial elver licence-holders now make somewhere between $60,000 to $90,000 a year. Under your scenario they will be lucky to make $50,000, so you will actually be impoverishing them from what they're doing. I don't know if you know those numbers.

Minister, let's say someone owns a Tim Hortons doughnut franchise, and you come along and say, “Well, I think it's unfair that you make a lot of money from that franchise, so I will take three-quarters of that business and give it to your employees. It's too bad you invested all this in the business—so sad—but I'm going to make it more equitable,” in some strange socialist world.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I will tell you that the people who have access to the elver and who fish this resource did not have to pay for their licence.

We are also talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars. To me, that means that young people, the next generation, will have access to the resource.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You're 100% incorrect, Minister.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

This is really important to me. What you're saying is not true at all.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Minister, the elver fishery was created by converting adult eel licenses at 0.84 kilograms per eel trap. That's how it was created 30 years ago, by people who had already paid for a licence and had an established business: You should learn about the history of it. The fact is, they invested and created businesses that have sustained hundreds and hundreds of people, so why do you think it would be better for people who work to earn less money than they do now?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I went to Portland, Maine, and saw how the elver fishing was happening. On the market, elvers sell for nearly $5,000 a kilogram.

The work will be done with people in the community, and I can guarantee that—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

The poaching that you allowed, Minister, has reduced the price considerably.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

—young people and the next generation will have access to licences, that we will be able to support families.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You couldn't enforce the law on eight licence-holders. How are you going to enforce the law on 150 licence-holders when you couldn't do it for eight?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

There were no rules in the past in Canada, and that's why we went to see how the fishing was happening in Maine. We wanted to know what rules were put in place in that state in order to improve our own rules and provide better access to the resource.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

There have been fishery rules for 30 years.

I have one last question. How much TAC or quota will you give the eel licence-holders, the 30 that you say you can convert to elver? What will the quota be for them, and why would you take it from existing quota when that measure should produce a larger quota under conservation rules?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Minister, if you could provide an answer in writing it would be best, because Mr Perkins went a little over.

We now go to Mr Weiler for the last five minutes in this round.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank the minister for being here today to answer questions.

I do want to pick up on some of the questions that some of my colleagues were asking about the aquaculture transition. On June 19 of this year the draft transition plan was announced, and there were a few items in it that I'd like to dig into a bit. The first one is that, effective July 1 of this year, there was a commitment made that new licences will be done for a maximum of five years, but they also come with stricter conditions to ensure improved management of sea lice, robust reporting requirements and additional monitoring of marine mammal interactions. Minister, I hope you might be able to explain to this committee here how, with these new interim licences, the conditions differ from what was there before.

[Kevin Brosseau]

The licences definitely have or will have stricter requirements. You identified a few with respect to reporting requirements, etc. We see this as a five-year transition period, if you will, until closed-net pens are actually required—in five years from the time of the announcement. Of course, DFO will continue to monitor, to enforce those conditions and to engage with communities...and do as we have. However, in terms of precision around additional licence requirements, we can provide additional details about what those conditions are in writing, through you, Chair.