Fisheries Committee on Dec. 9th, 2024

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to apologize to the witnesses. We're very appreciative of them. In addition, I'd like to apologize to all witnesses—well, I don't have to apologize; it's the other side that needs to apologize—who have come here. They've borne their heart and soul to this committee. They've given evidence that's been referenced in our reports, reports that have been reflective of their testimony.

Things aren't getting done. We're not seeing any movement on the reports we're putting through to the minister—any activity or any action whatsoever. I know it's frustrating for our witnesses, and it's even more frustrating for us to have to do this today.

MP Barron just mentioned that her questions didn't get answered last week by the minister. My questions didn't get answered. She answered every single one of them with the exact same talking points.

Stakeholders reached out to me and asked what's going on and why the minister wouldn't answer questions. Well, is it for the same reasons that she ignores the reports coming out of here on the owner-operator corporate concentration of fishing licences? That report is just sitting there. I'm sure Ms. Canet understands that and that one of the biggest things on her mind is that the owner-operator issue has fallen through the cracks in the Fisheries Act.

MP Perkins just referenced Mr. Sproul. I spoke to Mr. Sproul and emailed Mr. Sproul quite a few times this summer. While the lack of enforcement and out-of-season fishing was happening, he reached out to the minister several times. The minister had been in Nova Scotia, in Halifax, a couple of hours' drive away from Mr. Sproul and those who sit on the board of his association. They were completely ignored. They couldn't get meetings to discuss this very important subject.

The latest I've heard from stakeholders who I've spoken to in southwest Nova Scotia is that St. Marys Bay is a desert. It's barren. There's absolutely nothing left. The catch rates are bad enough on the outside, 30, 40 or 50 miles offshore, where lobsters born in St. Marys Bay would have migrated out. It's bad out there. It's 30% below last year, which was 30% below the year before. In the inner waters of St. Marys Bay, there's absolutely nothing.

These concerns have been raised again and again by commercial lobster fishermen in southwest Nova Scotia. This has been going on for years and years, so as the minister referenced the consultations she's had, I'd like to see documented for transparency who these stakeholders were she consulted. Obviously, she's not consulting with stakeholders whose livelihoods have been thrown under the bus. There may be some stakeholders she's consulted with, but they certainly don't represent fishers and crew members in the fishing enterprises that right now are facing excruciating times economically. It's also about to get worse.

You might say that lobster is $11 a pound and that someone landed 5,000 pounds of lobsters last week. Well, you're looking at enterprises that have $1.5 million or $2 million in financing at a bank with interest rates that are through the roof.

The mental health of this fleet of lobster fishers in Nova Scotia right now is at a breaking point. It's bad. They've watched this get progressively worse. If you look at the trajectory that the lobster fishery in southwest Nova Scotia is on—where it's come from and where it is—it's pretty easy to connect the dots and make a projection of where it's going. It's going to be many times worse, and it doesn't have to be. There are seasons for reasons.

For the minister to come out and say that she consulted with stakeholders is erroneous. She has been careless with the truth, and I'd like to see some evidence of these consultations. I heard Mr. Morrissey reference the minister's thought process that day. Well, I'm sure the minister had several days of preparing for the meeting last week.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

I did not reference the minister's thought process. I could not do that. I made the comment that I did not understand what the minister's thought process was.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

He did not understand. That's what he claims he said.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Okay. He referenced her thought process, that he didn't understand her.

Mr. Chair, whether he didn't understand it or understood it, he did reference her thought process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, he said that he didn't understand her thought process.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Then he did reference the thought process.

This issue needs to be dealt with by the committee. The fact is that the minister has failed—the sixth minister, the sixth failure—fish harvesters, the processing side of the industry and the coastal rural communities of southwest Nova Scotia.

It's not just southwest Nova Scotia where out-of-season fishing is happening. My colleague Mr. Perkins will be able to speak to that a bit later, but it's happening in several areas of Nova Scotia. He referenced what was happening in the Bay of Fundy.

This is a very big deal. This is something we're going to be dealing with two or three years down the road, with the potential closure of that fishery if this keeps going the way it's going. We're at a point now where we can do something to stop that from happening. The southwest Nova Scotia lobster fishery is worth around $2 billion per year. It's a very big deal.

If not for the mismanagement, we wouldn't be discussing this question of privilege here today, and I thank my colleague for bringing it forward. It's very important. I hope that when we're through the process on this question of privilege, we can see the direction and action that are desperately needed for the lobster fishery in southwest Nova Scotia.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'm going to suspend for a moment. The clerk wants to have a word with me, so I'll be right back.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, we're back.

I know I have a couple of people left to speak. I know that Mr. Arnold had his hand up and that Mr. Perkins wants to speak as well.

Normally, in a situation of presenting a motion of privilege, all the evidence would have to show that it was actually a question of privilege, and then it would be ruled on. I will go back, look at everything that's been said today up to this point and come back with a ruling for the committee on whether I consider it a question of privilege or debate, one or the other.

Mr. Arnold is next on the list.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Just on your—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, go ahead.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'll just let you know that I don't know if that cuts off debate or not. It's not my intent to spend all day debating this, but I have some stuff from the rules that I would like to quote, which I didn't do the first time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

It does mean that we're cut off. My ruling is that I will look at the evidence that's been given. If you have any other evidence, by all means send it in. I will review it all and come back to the committee with a decision.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Well, in response, I am at least owed the chance to respond to MP Barron's questions about what the rules and process are on this and to add more detail on how they fit in. As part of my evidence, I need to talk a bit about the big green book, Bosc and Gagnon, and a couple of the things in it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I don't think you need to reference Bosc and Gagnon right now. If somebody wants to know how a question of privilege is moved, the clerk would be only too glad to tell them how it works.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I just want to make it clear for the record.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'm not asking you to make it clear. I'm saying that the clerk will make it clear to everybody.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Well, then, could she? I'd like her to go to breaches on page 1060 of Bosc and Gagnon, which deals with this, so members know about it. That deals with the role of the committee, how privilege gets dealt with in committee and by the Speaker, and the rules on answering questions and the truthfulness of questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I don't have a copy of Bosc and Gagnon with me today.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

There's one right there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

That's not mine.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Well, I can read it to you, then. Let me read to you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'd rather you didn't, but if you want to kill the rest of this half-hour, go ahead.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I don't.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Go ahead. You're taking away time from witnesses.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, you have given direction on this.