Fisheries Committee on Jan. 18th, 2022

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Just for the new members—and maybe Mr. Zimmer—this amendment was passed in the last Parliament. It was agreed to by, I think, all of us.

Mr. Zimmer, just for your knowledge, we all agreed to it in the last Parliament.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Hands are going down faster than they're going up. I see a hand that's still up from Mr. Perkins. That's down now, and Mr. Cormier's hand is down.

Is there any more discussion on the amendment to the motion?

Seeing none, can I assume that we're all okay with the amendment? I see thumbs-up on all sides. Is anyone opposed?

(Amendment agreed to)

Now we will deal with the motion as amended. Seeing no more discussion, I will ask all those in favour to so indicate.

It's thumbs-up all the way around.

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll now go to Mr. Small.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to move:

That the committee undertake a comprehensive study of pinnipeds that would examine the ecosystem impacts of pinniped overpopulation in the waters of Quebec, eastern and western Canada; international experience in pinniped stock management; the domestic and international market potential for various pinniped products; social acceptability; and the socio-cultural importance of developing active management of predation for coastal and First Nations communities with access to the resource;

that the committee invite witness appearances including Indigenous organizations, scientific experts, DFO officials and experts and officials from countries such as Scotland, Norway and Iceland that have conserved and rebuilt fish stocks by balancing pinniped populations;

that the committee allot no fewer than eight two-hour meetings to receive said testimony;

that the committee also accept written briefs from individuals or organizations who wish to submit input; and

that the committee submit its findings with recommendations in a report to the House.

And.... I guess I can't change it from there. That's my motion, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Small.

I see some hands up.

Go ahead, Mr. Morrissey.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That is a very good motion. This was approved by the fishery committee in the last Parliament. I believe it was unanimous when it was tabled. It was probably Mr. Arnold at the time.

I would suggest, Mr. Small, a minor amendment. I'm requesting it because in the past, this committee undertook a number of very substantive studies, two in particular, for which the committee travelled. The importance of seeing what was happening on site.... This was on marine protected areas and small craft harbours, and it was valuable.

I would suggest, and move as an amendment, that you include that the committee request to travel to such countries as Scotland, Norway and Iceland when it is safe and appropriate to travel internationally in light of the COVID-19 pandemic.

This has been batted around for some time. We had a brief intervention in another study we were doing when senior officials from, I believe, the country of Norway were appearing before the committee. When they were questioned pointedly a number of times on how they dealt with the seal situation in those countries, the simple answer was that it just went away. Well, we're not that naive.

My suggestion, Mr. Chair, having been a member of this committee for some time, is that we consider this when appropriate. It's very good to talk to the people on the ground, especially the fishers involved. I would suggest this amendment to Mr. Small's motion. It's a very good study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Morrissey, could I ask you to read into the record the amendment that you're making?

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

The bottom line of the original motion says, "that the committee also accept written briefs from individuals or organizations who wish to submit input”.

I would add, “and that the committee request to travel to countries such as Scotland, Norway and Iceland when it is safe and appropriate to travel internationally in light of the COVID-19 pandemic; that the Chair be empowered to coordinate the travel.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We've all heard the amendment. Does anybody want to speak to it?

Go ahead, Madame Desbiens.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Chair, [Technical difficulty] that I wanted to comment on. However, if it is not permitted for me to do this now, I will do so later. I do not want to muddy the waters, as that is dangerous.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Arnold, do you want to speak to the amendment?

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd just like some clarity from Mr. Morrissey. Should travel not be possible, would that perhaps delay the study? Can we adjust his amendment so that the continuation of the study not be dependent on travel?

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, I agree with Mr. Arnold. I would not want to see this study delayed or put off. If you look at the number of studies before the committee, if we can, it would be advisable. Possibly we could clarify [Technical difficulty—Editor] prioritizing the studies going forward, but that's not the intention of my amendment, Mr. Arnold.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Just to interject, in the past it never has affected the study if travel, for some reason, had to be deleted. It's just a request to travel should we want to do that, and to be able to line up the prospective witnesses and whatnot to attend those sessions if it were permitted.

Seeing no other interjections—

Mr. Zimmer, there's that pale hand of yours again.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I'd better change that.

I was just going to speak in support of the motion as long as, as has already been said, whether we can travel or not doesn't impede the meetings from occurring. I think travelling is a very important part of it, but again, I'm supportive of the study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

Is there any other discussion on the proposed amendment by Mr. Morrissey?

Seeing none, can we vote on the proposed amendment?

(Amendment agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now we go back to the main motion as amended. I think we heard Mr. Small give a good explanation of the motion and the amendment, so does anybody have any discussion? No.

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Madame Desbiens, I know you have your hand up. Is that on the vote?

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

No. I am a bit late, but I did vote on the motion. There is no problem. I simply wanted to share an important anecdote about pinnipeds, but I'll refrain from doing so, since the clock is ticking. I'm ready to vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, the vote is actually done and the motion as amended has passed on division.

Now we'll go to Mr. Cormier.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I didn't know I was next. I think everybody got a—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You only have about a minute, so you'll get to introduce your motion and then we'll probably have to discuss it at the next meeting.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Perfect. I think everybody got the motion. I'll read it in French, which will be a little more helpful for me.

I move the following motion:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study to examine the fishery management measures put in place to protect North Atlantic right whales, in order to evaluate the impact these measures have had on the reduction of right whale deaths in Atlantic Canada and Quebec as well as the impact on the economy of coastal communities in these regions and to provide the government with options and recommendations to improve these measures; that the committee call witnesses including senior officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada and interested stakeholder groups to testify before the committee; that the committee present its conclusions and recommendations in a report to the House of Commons; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to this report.

Mr. Chair, this was a motion that I moved in the last Parliament, and it was adopted by all the members of this committee. If my time is up, I'm willing to stop there. If you let me, I can continue, but I can also continue in the next meeting and give a broader scope of what the motion is all about.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

The time is up. I can ask for unanimous consent to extend for a few minutes so that Mr. Cormier can finish with his motion, but I don't think we'll get to any discussion on it or a vote right now.

Serge, I'm not seeing any dissent. It's up to you. If you want to finish what you have to say, then we can get right to it at the next meeting, or you can start off the next meeting with a short intervention.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Sure. I know everybody probably has other meetings, but just quickly, as I said, it was passed in the last Parliament, and this is probably a study for next fall. I don't think we'll have time this fall.

Again, for those who are aware of the North Atlantic right whale issue, since 2017 in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and some other regions—Nova Scotia and P.E.I., and Quebec also—those whales are moving in our areas. We put measures in place in 2017 to make sure that there would be fewer deaths and fewer interactions with the fishermen. A lot of great measures were put in place by our government. A lot of good work was done by the fishermen's groups and a lot of good work was done with the environmental groups also, so I think there's a good opportunity there to look at the measures that were put in place to make sure that we're not only adapting to the reality of our fishing community but also working to protect those right whales.

I can elaborate a little more at the next meeting, but this is what it's all about. I think we will all benefit from having witnesses come to the committee to say what is going well and also what is going wrong with some of those measures so that we can improve them.