Fisheries Committee on Feb. 8th, 2022

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our guests and witnesses for coming into today. I'm learning a lot.

Ms. Murdoch, I know the Pacific salmon strategy initiative covers Yukon as well as British Columbia. I know that while we're here to discuss the impact of flooding and climate change on salmon stocks in B.C., we also had flooding and high water in Yukon with effects on the salmon. We have experienced consistently poor salmon runs in the last few years.

I was wondering if you could comment either now or later in writing on how you're approaching implementation of the Pacific salmon initiative in Yukon, and how you're working with Yukon government and Yukon first nation governments, particularly in regard to climate change effects including flooding and high water, and regarding salmon stocks in the Alsek and Yukon rivers.

Thank you.

[Sarah Murdoch]

As you highlighted, the focus today has been on British Columbia, but the Pacific salmon strategy initiative does apply to Yukon Territory as well.

We've had initial meetings with the Yukon government at the deputy level and below, just socializing this new direction for the department and really trying to focus on, as you say, understanding the climate effects on salmon and salmon habitat and looking at opportunities for rebuilding and recovery.

Because of the post-treaty context up there, a key important first step that we have begun is to meet directly with first nations in Yukon to talk about where we have shared priorities and how we can move forward on that. That conversation is expected to continue over the next few months.

We also have a unique process there that reports directly to our minister, called the Yukon Salmon Sub-Committee, which was created under the umbrella Yukon agreement. We are looking to work with them and get advice from them also on how best to implement the PSSI, as we call it, up in Yukon.

Those three groups are key, I think, to identifying the shared priorities for how PSSI can be implemented up in the Yukon context.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much.

Secondly, to follow up on Mr. Hardie's question about international agreements, and knowing that there is a Yukon River Salmon Agreement, how does your department work with the United States in addressing ongoing stock management and mutual threats related to climate change and flooding, again, noting that this is a significant concern, particularly in our first nations communities?

[Sarah Murdoch]

For those who don't know, one of the key factors in our salmon health, in the salmon escapement in the Yukon context, depends on our partnership and collaboration with Americans, given how the fish migrate.

I will have to respond in writing. I'm not the lead on those Pacific Salmon Treaty negotiations or implementation, and I know there is quite an extensive amount of work that's under way, so I would rather respond in writing with their support if that's all right.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

That would be great and much appreciated. Thank you.

Those are my questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hanley.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Once again, I'd like to thank the witnesses. What a repository of information they are. It's really something.

Earlier, we were discussing the importance of having small local groups to benefit from the depth of knowledge found in local regions, such as in the Yukon. Not only does that tie in with what I was saying earlier, but it's also number six of the 32 recommendations in the committee's report. That long list of recommendations actually predates the catastrophic flooding in the lower Fraser River.

Which recommendations have already been put in place? Which ones could prove beneficial going forward?

[Sarah Murdoch]

I'm not familiar with or don't have handy right now exactly what recommendation 6 is. I'll be brief, and maybe you can clarify whether I hit the mark.

One of the key aspects of the Pacific salmon strategy initiative moving forward is the recognition that the federal government, and DFO in particular, will not be able to stem the declines we're seeing in Pacific salmon alone. We have over 200 first nations across B.C. and Yukon, many of whom are very passionate and have a huge historical tie with the social and economic importance of salmon.

We also have, I think, approximately 30,000 stewardship volunteers who spend their own volunteer time and hours working on salmon-related projects. We need to harness that. Also, Mr. Fanos and I spoke to the fact that addressing salmon habitat in particular requires a multi-jurisdictional approach with the Province of British Columbia. So...building in the capacity, and we are creating a salmon stewardship directorate specifically so that we have the right people in place to leverage those relationships. Making sure that our partners have access to whatever DFO capacity and resources they need to move forward in their own priorities and work to protect and rebuild salmon stocks is a key component of our work going forward.

That does represent a bit of a shift in that there's a leadership role, but the government is going to be doing this working with others.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

There are only about seven seconds left—not enough for another question.

Now we'll go on to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Would that kind of measure apply to the St. Lawrence River, yes or no?

[Sarah Murdoch]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Sorry. Your time is up.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I will follow up afterwards, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

Ms. Barron, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

That was a good use of seven seconds.

My questions definitely have a bit of a theme here. I'm really trying to understand better what the infrastructure will look like as we move forward in developing systems. In particular, I'm wondering about this: In February 2021 the Union of BC Municipalities executives endorsed a resolution around flood mitigation through green infrastructure and natural assets, which calls for the restoration and protection of salmon habitat compromised by outdated flood control systems.

While I understand that this resolution was sent to the provincial government, I'm wondering if you can confirm whether or not there have been any collaborations from DFO to help support communities who are looking to enhance their green infrastructure. If not, why has DFO not been more proactive?

[Brad Fanos]

With regard to the green infrastructure work that's happening at many different jurisdictions, DFO is engaged and involved from a planning perspective to provide advice as we can with respect to the green infrastructure for fish. So we absolutely are engaged.

I think there's work to do. I think Sarah Murdoch and I have indicated that through programming, whether it's PSSI or an existing program, we're going to continue our efforts to more proactively work with others, particularly leading those infrastructure upgrades, to ensure and facilitate the green outcome. I think you're going to see a lot more movement, probably, in the coming months and years on that front. DFO is well positioned to support that.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

My last question is this. In 2016 we saw Lina Azeez, a project manager for Watershed Watch Salmon Society, who recommended to the committee that the federal government establish a salmon and dike fund as an interim measure until fish friendly flood control practices become the norm through legislation and policy. Can you point to how DFO has shifted its approach, in light of this information, over the last six years?

[Brad Fanos]

Watershed Watch, I must say, has been doing some tremendous work. Lina is one of the leaders there.

In terms of the funding opportunities, I don't have any indication from my particular programming around that item. One thing that happened over the last two or three years in particular was the updated Fisheries Act, as you know, in 2019. That positioned us to do more investments with staff and resources to support the proactive planning piece you're referring to as well as the PSSI.

That's kind of what's been happening over the last few years, implementing new programming to be more proactive to have better outcomes for fish.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll move on to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank both witnesses for providing what they're able to.

Ms. Murdoch, in your opening remarks you said that flooding is “likely” to have impacted fish species, and then in some of the testimony you said it had definitely been impacted. I would ask that you define what impacts DFO has measured, or been provided by other parties, and that you or the department provide that to the committee in writing, please.

I'll move on to a question that you might able to answer here. Who at DFO Pacific is responsible for leading DFO's response to the flooding impacts—not to the flood itself but to the impacts and restoration? Who at DFO would be responsible for that?

[Sarah Murdoch]

We'd be happy to respond on the more technical aspects in writing.

Right now, as I mentioned, we have a task team as we're shifting from the emergency response phase into the planning and next phase of work. Mr. Fanos here is leading that work. We do see this being a medium- to long-term need over the next few years. I did mention the PSSI and the salmon stewardship directorate that we are looking to establish right now. We expect to be the medium- to long-term host or lead for that work going forward. Mr. Fanos is leading up the interbranch work task team right now.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Would Mr. Fanos be responsible for coordinating the responses between the provinces, indigenous organizations, municipalities and other users?

[Sarah Murdoch]

Right now, actually, our minister is participating in a committee at that level. I understand that our deputy and associate deputy are also quite engaged in the issue. We are supporting up through that process.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Could you identify one individual in the department who might be responsible for this, or is it part of the Pacific salmon strategic initiative? Who ultimately is responsible for leading this?

[Sarah Murdoch]

That is the intent. I am the senior director for the Pacific salmon strategy initiative. Above me, Wes Shoemaker is the head of the Pacific salmon strategy transformation. I would say it's me and Mr. Shoemaker.