Fisheries Committee on Feb. 8th, 2022

[Brad Fanos]

Clearly, rivers are dynamic systems that go through these types of fluctuating water flows. This is a particularly severe event that occurred in the fall, so the impacts are anticipated to be much greater. We can see as much in some of the systems that we've seen, particularly in the Nicola, Chilliwack and Lower Mainland systems.

To understand what these impacts would look like over time, we're going through a seasonal change in the hydrological graph. We're going to be looking at the spring as a bit of a trigger to see what the impacts may look like for channel morphology. The rivers change through the cycle of the year and we're probably not likely to see what these impacts are until after the spring freshet, once we can see after the spring high flows where we're looking in terms of the fish habitat and the features there.

We will and do know that the various restoration facilities and hatcheries that we're operating, in terms of the nature of the impacts at those facilities.... But with the broader systems, like the Nicola, Coldwater and Spius, for example, they would take a longer time to assess at different times in the year to understand what the nature of the impacts are.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie, for five minutes or less, please.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Murdoch and Mr. Fanos, for being with us.

I'm grateful to the committee, by the way, for agreeing to do this and making it our first study as we enter this new session.

The reason I thought there was some time sensitivity to this was the fact that we were witness to damage to some of the flood control systems, particularly along the lower Fraser. This presented an opportunity to perhaps improve those systems on behalf of the salmon runs as they were being restored or rebuilt.

I don't know if Ms. Murdoch or Mr. Fanos could answer this one, but what do we know about the extent of the damage to the flood control systems along the Fraser?

[Sarah Murdoch]

As I mentioned, we know there were impacts to salmon, particularly to juvenile salmon. Mr. Fanos can speak more directly to what we anticipate are the immediate impacts.

Unfortunately, the actual.... My apologies, I just want to make sure if I'm still connected.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Yes, you are.

I was asking about the infrastructure, not the fish.

[Sarah Murdoch]

My apologies. My screen just went blank, but as long as you can hear and see me, that works.

Yes, our own DFO infrastructure had some significant issues that we were not able to assess immediately because of the emergency nature, the limit of ability and access to different sites. We are in the process of making immediate repairs there, as are others.

Mr. Fanos is responsible for the program that issues some of the regulatory permits around some of the broader emergency flooding infrastructure that is being put in place immediately. We are coordinating on those, primarily through the province of British Columbia, to ensure that the appropriate permitting is in place from a regulatory perspective around protecting fish and fish habitats regarding flooding infrastructure.

If I can pass it to Mr. Fanos, he might be able to expand on that.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Yes, I would appreciate that.

What do we know so far about the opportunities that exist to perhaps improve the flood control systems and make them more fish friendly?

[Brad Fanos]

We know a fair bit. Our program, the fish and fish habitat protection program, has been working quite closely with a lot of the local municipalities and regional districts during the flooding events themselves to make sure that we were supporting them and the actions they were taking during the flood events to try to mitigate and avoid some impacts to fish and fish habitat while doing that important infrastructure repair work immediately at the time.

Now we're moving into the recovery phase. We know there's quite a large area in the Sumas and Chilliwack areas where are going to need dike repairs. There are many floodgates that pass water from the Fraser River into the various systems. These are critical areas for fish passage and access issues, as I'm sure you're well aware.

There's an opportunity as we're doing these upgrade works in the coming weeks, months and years, frankly, to continue to work with those various local governments in the project review functions, as Sarah indicated, and also proactively trying to ensure the best practices. Many of these features were developed 50 years ago or longer. The design features for fish friendly aspects weren't necessarily available. There's a tremendous opportunity, and we will be working with local governments and the British Columbia government for all those opportunities as we're starting to rebuild for the fish friendly....

I should note that there's been a tremendous amount of the work by ENGOs, people like the Watershed Watch Salmon Society, for example, who have done an excellent job working with others to prioritize and understand the number of flooding infrastructure issues and where there are opportunities and priorities related to improvements for fish and fish habitat.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Do we expect that there will be an ask of the federal government for funding support as these systems are restored and hopefully improved?

Ms. Murdoch, perhaps that's best to you.

[Sarah Murdoch]

As Brad said, we're working closely with our provincial and local government colleagues. Obviously there has been a significant amount of federal funding provided to support the emergency response writ large. We want to make sure that funding is done in a way where DFO is participating and informing the spending of that money as much as possible.

We've not had any specific conversations regarding specific salmon friendly projects per se other than some very preliminary conversations about the fact that this type of work would definitely be eligible under our B.C. salmon restoration and innovation fund.

Thank you.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

We also saw flooding events in Merritt and in Princeton. If there were no flood control measures, for instance on the Coldwater River, the Nicola River or the Similkameen River, I would imagine we can expect that some would be put in place.

Do you know the status of any flood control measures that were there, or were they just basically non-existent prior to the flooding incident?

Mr. Fanos, would you know this?

[Brad Fanos]

Yes. In the various systems you've indicated, whether in the Merritt area in particular and around Similkameen and around Princeton, most of those features aren't quite the same as the Lower Mainland. We saw lots of agricultural activity and heavy diking. There are dikes in those particular areas, and we had some works that we supported through our regulatory functions to support repairs to those.

The kinds of access issues that you see in the lower Fraser are quite different when you move into the interior. The Coldwater and the Nicola are more natural systems, with some diking, but not necessary to the degree you're seeing in the Lower Mainland. There are still some opportunities there to improve dikes, to have setbacks, to allow better habitat channelization and repair and support for fish and fish habitats. Opportunities are there. They're probably different—more around channel morphology and trying to improve conditions within the stream for fish and fish habitat. The nature of opportunities you might see in the Coldwater and Merritt systems versus what you might see in the Lower Mainland are a little different.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, I think I'll end here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie. You've gone a little over time.

Go ahead, Mrs. Desbiens. You have six minutes.

You're on mute.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Chair, I don't have the proper headset, but I should be getting one any minute now. I'll have to skip my turn or switch with the NDP member.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll go now to Ms. Barron.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you to Mr. Hardie for bringing forward the study. For me as a resident of British Columbia and one who's representing the constituents of Nanaimo—Ladysmith, it's clear this has had an important impact on British Columbia this year.

I appreciate the information that's been brought forward. I have a bunch a questions. Clearly, I won't have time to get to all of them, but the first thing I want to ask about is when we talk about solutions and building flood mitigation infrastructure, we often talk about intensifying what we've already built with human-engineered grey solutions. Alternatively, in my riding, the city of Nanaimo has done a lot of work to make sure that we consider the natural infrastructure we have around us. For example, Buttertubs Marsh Conservation Area is evaluated as being worth $10 million to $15 million as part of our storm surge infrastructure while providing a habitat for birds and an entire natural, vibrant ecosystem.

As we're building from this extreme flooding event, I'm wondering how the government is helping communities ensure that natural infrastructure is prioritized and enhanced as we try to balance salmon populations with the protections for our communities.

[Sarah Murdoch]

Mr. Chair, I can begin and then I'll quickly pass it to my colleague, Mr. Fanos.

I would say that it's very much aligned with DFO's role in the process and very much what we are looking to support. Where Mr. Fanos leads, we have a regulatory role around protection of fish and fish habitat, but we also are looking to engage increasingly in the local and regional levels of ecosystem and integrated planning processes to support what we call a “fish friendly” approach to infrastructure.

Obviously, a lot of the leadership needs to also come from the Government of British Columbia and local governments, so it's very nice to hear that it's supported by your local regional district or community of Nanaimo.

We've had good initial conversations with the British Columbia government and we are hoping to continue to have broader support along those lines.

Mr. Fanos, do you want to add?

[Brad Fanos]

The only thing I will add is that supporting green infrastructure and broader environmental benefits certainly complements the work DFO is doing related to fish and fish habitat.

The planning functions the department does are going to be critical because we're going to be involved and engaged and expect to be engaged in infrastructure upgrades and opportunities for fish, which will just benefit broader environmental interests, if you will.

Thank you.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair. Can I move on to the next question? I'm just making sure I'm following the process here. I'm seeing a yes. Thank you.

Building on the question I previously asked—and thank you for that response—I'm seeing a lot of fragmentation in the processes. We talk a lot about having a whole ecosystem approach, but I'm seeing a fragmented approach as we're spending dollars in this recovery.

It's clear that habitat and species recovery, green infrastructure, climate change, adaptation and reconciliation can all be achieved through investments in the right projects. I'm wondering how we can see more of an alignment of priorities as we build back from this flooding.

[Sarah Murdoch]

Thanks very much for the question.

Mr. Chair, I just have a brief response. I wholeheartedly agree. We do need an integrated approach. One thing we are looking to do within the department under PSSI is now to have a pacific salmon secretariat that makes sure we aren't siloing even within our own departmental response.

As mentioned, we also have a task team for flood response that brings in the subject matter experts from across our various program areas. Obviously, though, that's just within DFO. In our department, we are also engaged and looking to engage further—over the medium to long term, not just the immediate response—in an inter-agency approach. We expect that will be led by the B.C. government, but there will also be tables and opportunities to engage at that subregional or watershed level as well going forward.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need a coordinated approach that's more holistic in nature.

As Mr. Fanos mentioned, if we can do things in a way that is fish friendly or friendly for salmon, it will tend to have broader positive environmental effects as well.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I just want to see if I have time for one more question in here.

There is one last thing I wanted to ask about in the short period of time that we have. We saw some really courageous stories of Sumas and Stó:lo first nations community members working incredibly hard to save endangered salmon. We know that first nations have been at the forefront of standing up for and protecting salmon populations.

I know you touched on first nations, but how is DFO working in partnership with first nations to ensure they have a voice in this conversation at the table?

Thank you.

[Sarah Murdoch]

Mr. Chair, I would say that at all levels we are working closely with first nations partners. Our minister, Minister Murray, was sitting I think yesterday on a committee of federal-provincial ministers, as well as leadership from the B.C. first nations.

As well, at my level and Brad's, we are also meeting regularly with first nations partners, again, like those you mentioned who are working specifically in the lower Fraser Valley in the watershed level. We are also, under the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, looking to build governance in collaborative mechanisms to work with first nations provincially as well on salmon rebuilding and restoration in particular. That will be something that we're looking to build together, with a focus on salmon recovery and rebuilding in the coming year.

Thank you.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

Note to self: I will time myself moving forward.

I'm assuming I'm out of time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You are pretty close. Sorry. You have about 10 seconds left. You won't get in much in that length of time.