Evidence of meeting #58 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pinnipeds.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
To Mr. Pearce or Mr. Stabler, what are the results of actions to reduce sea lions on the Columbia River? Have they seen increases in their salmon populations?
5:45 p.m.
President, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society
Very specifically, at the Willamette fault, two years ago, when they first started this program, they were watching the winter steelhead population come through. It was 250 pieces that came through. Last year, they had 2,800.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Good.
We've heard testimony in previous hearings that if we harvest pinnipeds, the silver hake population is going to skyrocket, and this is going to harm salmon populations. It's going to be devastating.
Is there a commercial fishery for silver hake in B.C. waters?
5:50 p.m.
President, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society
I had the pleasure of visiting one of the largest processors on Vancouver Island when we were doing market research. One of the boats had just come in from fishing for hake off Cape Lazo. Last May they had a delivery, to that date, of 12 million pounds.
You can adjust that level to anything to offset what Dr. Trites was worrying about. It's easily managed.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
If we reduce pinnipeds, silver hake population increases, which means more silver hake for harvesters to catch to help replace the salmon.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Okay.
There's a lot of controversy over net-pen salmon farming in British Columbia.
If we took every net-pen salmon farm out of the water today and left all the pinnipeds in the water, would it make any difference in the recovery of wild salmon stocks?
Mr. Stabler, you're a biologist.
5:50 p.m.
Director, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society
It would make absolutely zero difference.
There are issues with fish farms, but they're a small footprint. A huge supply of pinnipeds is not a small footprint. That's not a localized event. That is coast-wide.
The fish farms are negligible compared to what is going on with depredation.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
What is the number one thing we have to do to help save wild salmon stocks in British Columbia?
5:50 p.m.
Director, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society
You have to get into a harvest control regime of an exploding population.
I have a great deal of science that backs up the statement. All of them are peer-reviewed; all of them are written. I will provide that as expert testimony to this panel. You folks are going to find that a great deal of the science that I will submit to you will directly counter what Mr. Trites has said here today.
For that reason and many more, I suggest the committee as a whole please review those peer-reviewed papers that I am going to send you.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Small.
We're now going to go to Mr. Hanley for three minutes or less, please.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Thanks to everyone. This has been a really interesting discussion, in view of the short time.
I don't have any predetermined position on this. I really want to know what the best evidence is and how we resolve some conflicting evidence.
My riding is the Yukon territory. We know that salmon have essentially collapsed—chinook in particular have collapsed—so I am very worried about the critical state of our salmon.
There, I think, there's no argument.
We know also that there's potential for growth in the seal market, as was eloquently described by Madame Gauthier, and that with education that can increase.
I guess I have a few questions. First, I'll go quickly to Dr. Trites.
Mr. Stabler's referred now twice to peer-reviewed studies about salmon consumption by predators.
Can you comment on your own view of the magnitude of this issue and why there's some disagreement, perhaps, between your assessment and Mr. Stabler's assessment?
5:50 p.m.
Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
We often see numbers thrown out on the tonnage of fish mammals are eating, or references made to seine boats and whatnot equivalents. The reality is that when we look at what people consume, we find the average American.... When we weigh the food they're consuming, on average, it's about 1.6 tonnes of food per year. That works out to be about 5.6% of body mass. Compare that to pinnipeds. We're talking about 5.3% for seals and 5% for sea lions. Often, it comes down to how the numbers are being used.
The other point I would like to make is that there's a lot of research being done trying to figure out what's wrong with salmon. Not a lot of evidence is finding a connection with the presence of seals, other than their numbers are high compared to fish numbers. There was a recent paper that came out, this past year, on salmon. They looked at survival trends. I can forward this to the committee. There's no connection being demonstrated, there, with the presence of seals.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Dr. Trites, I have to move on, because I think my time is already running out.
I have a question to change the approach.
Mr. Stabler or Mr. Pearce, do we have the equipment and gear to take on seal harvesting in a major way? Also, how would you measure the impact? Is a 5,000-seal harvest enough to see it make a difference, and is it measurable?
5:50 p.m.
President, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society
You would see a measurable.... Mind you, 5,000 out of 150,000 is a pretty small base. With 5,000, we can get 100% stomach sampling. We can then get out to the market with the pelts and seal oil.
One of our members got shut down, about 15 years ago. He was into rendering the seal for oil. There were two and a half gallons of omega-3 oil in the seal. It's worth $150 a gallon.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you for that.
I'm sorry. The time has gone over.
We'll now go to Mr. Champoux for three minutes or less.
5:55 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Gauthier, I'm coming back to you, because you made my mouth water with the recipe from earlier. We could discuss other culinary ideas, especially since it's getting close to dinner time, but let's save that for a future conversation, if you don't mind.
I want to talk about the status of your museum, Exploramer, and know a little bit about your funding sources. I know this is a little off topic, but I think it's still important. I also sit on the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, so I want to see how we can help you.
What are your funding sources? Do you receive funding from Fisheries and Oceans Canada or Canadian Heritage? How does this work?
5:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Exploramer
In Quebec, museums like ours receive funding from the Quebec Ministry of Culture and Communications for their operations. We sometimes receive grants from Canadian Heritage to set up certain projects or produce museum exhibitions. In our case, these are always scientific exhibitions on the marine environment of the St. Lawrence. In the last few years, we have produced exhibitions on the seal populations of the St. Lawrence. We have already had two exhibitions on this subject. Our exhibits have not been funded by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to date, but it would be a very good idea.
5:55 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
So there is no recurrent funding. The funds that come from the federal government are for specific projects, as I understand it.
5:55 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
The Gaspé has a lot to offer tourists. In the off-season, couldn't we create attractions that would showcase not only seal meat, but also all the products that can be obtained from the seal hunt? Do you have something like that in mind?
5:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Exploramer
Absolutely. That's kind of the goal I wanted to mention earlier. Seal hunting outfitters could be established. We know that in the Gaspé, on the North Shore, in the Lower St. Lawrence, and even in the Magdalen Islands, the tourist season runs from June to October. It would be very interesting if tourism activities could continue from November to March, particularly through the seal hunt.
In Quebec and throughout Canada, sport or recreational hunting activities are very lucrative and interesting. It's a very targeted audience and a niche product, and our regions could allow these activities without ever harming our seal herds. Right now, they're there. We could have these events in a very educational way, with good meat and fur management. Hunters could come and participate and be educated about this hunt. At the same time, as tourists, they would be spending their money in areas where there is a lot of unemployment in the winter, so it would help alleviate some of the economic concerns.
5:55 p.m.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Thank you very much for presenting this perspective, Ms. Gauthier. I guarantee we will be taking a trip this summer to visit Exploramer.