Fisheries Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[Adam Burns]

For example, in many fisheries, our scientific assessments also develop estimates of unreported catch, as I mentioned earlier, whether that's the small amount of FSC activity or whether it's other activities like recreational fishing, which doesn't have logbook reporting, or various bycatch activities—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

I'll turn my time over to Mr. Brock now.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

To Mr. Burns, all public prosecutors, when they are prosecuting a federal charge, ask themselves two questions: Is there a reasonable prospect of a conviction, and is it in the public interest? I'm not talking about the conviction aspect but the public interest you referenced.

All the times I prosecuted in Ontario, when I withdrew a charge because of a public interest issue, I had to articulate the reasons behind that on the record. In the case of the Public Prosecution Service in the Maritimes, what general set of reasons are they putting on the record when they are withdrawing charges under the Fisheries Act on public grounds?

[Brent Napier]

In terms of moderate livelihood, the rights-based perspective complicates the pursuant. In looking at the various court cases, it's not as clear based on the rules that we have in place. Trying to merge the commercial with the rights-based fishery creates confusion. Therefore, it's challenging for us to pursue. What we need to do is establish the clear guidelines for those moderate livelihood fisheries.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Why hasn't that been done?

[Brent Napier]

That process is in place. Negotiated by all the communities—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

This is an issue that's been going on for decades. Why has that not been done?

[Brent Napier]

The process is to negotiate with each of the communities, and that activity is ongoing.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Do you agree with me that this creates the perception of a two-tiered level of justice? Do you agree with that concept?

[Brent Napier]

I wouldn't suggest that. I would suggest there are tiers: There's conservation and there's rights-based, and then there are the other fisheries that fall beneath that.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Does that approach affect the number of charges that are actually laid, knowing full well that the Public Prosecution Service will withdraw time after time on public interest grounds?

[Adam Burns]

With respect to the moderate livelihood right, the government has invested since 1999, with the Marshall court ruling from the Supreme Court, well over $600 million—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I'm going to yield my time now to Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

We're more than familiar with that history.

I'm going to try this one more time. During the elver crisis last year, April through June, my office called my local RCMP detachment every day to ask if DFO had asked for help in enforcing the law, which is something DFO C and P did in the 2000 crisis.

Why is C and P not asking for additional resources to help enforce the law?

[Adam Burns]

I can tell you, Mr. Chair, that the department is coordinating directly with CBSA and the RCMP in order to ensure and—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm telling you that, on the ground, the RCMP were never called, and I'm telling you that CBSA sat in that chair and said they didn't get any elvers exported, so I'm going to ask again. In March the poaching's going to begin. Are you going to be on the rivers in greater numbers to enforce the law and stop the illegal activity?

Just say yes or no, please. I don't have much time.

[Adam Burns]

The department will be 100% engaged with its partners in—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

No. Will it be on the rivers in greater numbers than it was last year to arrest poachers and stop the illegal activity? That's a simple yes or no. Are you putting more resources in or the same?

[Adam Burns]

Again, I can't speak to the exact numbers, but what I can tell you is that last year there were more resources dedicated to elver enforcement than to other activities.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

They didn't work, so what about this year? Will there be more resources on the river this year?

[Adam Burns]

There are a variety of means that we'll be implementing. As I mentioned earlier—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

On the river.... It's a simple question. It's four weeks away.

[Adam Burns]

There are a number of tools that we need in place in order to properly manage this fishery, as I mentioned earlier: the management review, the allocation review as well as the positioned regulations—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

No, what the department—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Perkins, your time is up.

We will now go to Mr. Badawey for five minutes or less, please.