Fisheries Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[Adam Burns]

The Sparrow decision of the Supreme Court in 1990 that found the right for fishing for food, social and ceremonial purposes, which the department has applied through policy throughout the country related to fishing, is about the local needs of the community, and essentially their food needs as well as social and ceremonial needs. We seek to work with nations to understand what those food needs and social and ceremonial needs are, and to provide that and to give food, social and ceremonial access a priority that is higher than commercial or recreational fishing—really only second to core conservation objectives.

In terms of the Marshall right of the 35 Mi'kmaq and Wolastoqey nations, the peace and friendship treaty nations on the east coast, on that right found by the courts we work with each of those nations to understand how they want to pursue that right. We work with them through various programming instruments in order to further their ability to pursue that right. I would say that we approach that right on a nation-to-nation basis and work with each nation directly in order to understand their vision for how that right should be pursued.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for five minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I think has been referenced, Mr. Burns, earlier this week we had three representatives of B.C. fishing alliances for first nations. I asked them whether they collected and reported catch rates on commercial and communal commercial licences and FSC catches and, if so, whether they reported that to DFO. They said yes to both counts.

Do first nations in Atlantic Canada do the same?

[Adam Burns]

Certainly with respect to the commercial and communal commercial licences, the commercial reporting requirements are present there for those as well. I would not want to say to you today that there's 100% reporting related to the catch of FSC. I wouldn't be confident enough that this is indeed the case.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I asked DFO in an Order Paper question through the House of Commons to provide me with the FSC catch rates in Atlantic Canada. The response was that there aren't any.

[Adam Burns]

I won't question the response that was given. What I can tell you is that we know through observation that FSC catch rates are very low relative to the overall removals in the fishery. In our scientific processes, in areas where there are catches that aren't specifically quantified, including in some recreational fisheries on the east coast as well—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay. That's fine. You basically said that you agree—you don't have the data, although you have it for the west coast. I'm not sure why the double standard.

I'll move on to more philosophical things. The purpose of everything DFO does is conservation—is it not? Everything you do about rules around what you can do in a commercial catch or a recreational catch is about conservation of stocks—is it not?

[Adam Burns]

The Fisheries Act speaks to conservation and the proper management and control of the fisheries. The orderly managing and the orderly running of the fishery as well as conservation are at the core.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Right, so no decision that the department would make wouldn't be based with conservation in mind, whether it was regulation or rules.

[Adam Burns]

Again, the core responsibilities for the minister relate to conservation and the orderly and proper management of—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'll take that as a yes. Obviously, enforcement of the rules and regulations is critical to making sure that conservation is preserved. Is that not correct?

[Adam Burns]

It is a core element of our overall management regime, absolutely.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm concerned, because through access to information several years ago, before I was elected, I got access to some sitreps from C and P around the situation that happened in St. Marys Bay in southwest Nova Scotia back then. This sitrep here, from the maritime region, says that C and P ordered officers in the gulf and maritime regions to be directed to observe and record and report. In other words, don't charge anyone and don't enforce the law.

Can you tell me about or can you provide to this committee any similar sitreps since then on any fishery in southwest Nova Scotia where similar orders were given to C and P officers, including the last two years in the elver fishery, please?

[Adam Burns]

I'm not part of the C and P chain of command.

[Brent Napier]

That was a very specific case in terms of public safety concerning the safety of the officers and trying to understand the rules in place.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Did you issue similar ones last year during—

[Brent Napier]

We do not issue those from headquarters. They're technically—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Can you check and provide those to the committee, please?

[Brent Napier]

We can certainly look into those, yes.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Last week, DFO in Halifax met with the licensed elver harvesters and told them that they would provide no more C and P enforcement than they provided last year on the rivers of Nova Scotia, where people were assaulted with pipes, where people brought firearms and weapons out on the river and where no licensed elver harvester has ever seen a C and P officer show up. All of them have live cameras on the river. After 18 days of this lawlessness, it was the licensees who were held back.

Can you pledge to me that you are going to work with the RCMP to have people on the rivers one month from now in March when the poaching starts, which is about a month before the official season? Will you commit to making sure that there are officers on the river—not at the airport and not patrolling buyers, but on the river—to prevent the violence and the poaching?

[Adam Burns]

The department is actively engaged in three streams of work, which are the management review, the allocation work and the regulatory work on possession of elvers.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It's a simple yes or no.

[Adam Burns]

What I can tell you is that last year the department allocated more C and P resources to elver enforcement—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Are the elver harvesters incorrect in what they told you?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Perkins, your time is up. Your time has gone over, actually, so you can't be butting in like that.

Mr. Morrissey, go ahead for five minutes or less, please.