Fisheries Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of questions.

I'll say it this way: Fish don't have passports. Fish are all over, and of course with that, the effects on one side of a border can affect the other side of the border. For the most part my question is how the enforcement partners, through intelligence, fleet dedication and available technology vis-à-vis radar—which is probably the most effective technology to utilize to see who's who and where's where—like drones, etc., are looking at data with respect to quotas. The reality of what's being caught versus what's being allowed can tell the full picture.

Lastly, on the harmonization of regulations, are we in fact working together with those not only within our country but within the countries that are actually a part of this fish stock so that we're dealing with one situation at hand in terms of trying to preserve, but more importantly, in trying to preserve there is the enforcement of—hopefully—harmonized regulations as well as harmonized efforts to deal with this challenge?

[Adam Burns]

I'll offer a few thoughts on that.

I'll start by saying that we do use a variety of tools for domestic enforcement. We have C and P working with the Coast Guard related to maritime domain awareness, knowing where activities are occurring and deploying assets appropriately related to that. We can tell if a vessel is fishing versus transiting, based on its speed and behaviour. We are able to do a lot of things that in years gone by you just weren't able to do from a computer screen somewhere. You just needed to be out to see it. There's a real modernized approach to maritime domain awareness domestically.

You mentioned internationally. I will note the work that Canada is leading on globally related to dark vessel detection, working with countries like Ecuador and the Philippines, for example, and helping them develop the tools they need for their maritime domain awareness as well to support fisheries enforcement. There are really exciting developments from that related to protecting the Galapagos Islands and seeing the Chinese distant-water fleet literally being pushed out of those areas where they otherwise would be destroying those valuable ecosystems.

We're also engaged with partners—the U.S., Japan, Korea—on Operation North Pacific Guard with aerial surveillance as well as on-water presence. Last year Canada had a vessel. We hope that will be the case again this year, along with the U.S., where enforcement agencies from all of those countries are coordinating and present on the vessel to enforce high seas rules.

That is the other important piece. You were mentioning regulations. By ensuring that the international rules-based framework is in place and enforceable, we really can ensure that the bad actors on the high seas are able to be dealt with. Really important and encouraging progress is being made on all those fronts.

[Brent Napier]

I would just add that of course with the multitude of tools we have there's cross-validation. E-logs are important, but it's comparing that against something else—third party monitoring, electronic monitoring and the analysis and intelligence work that's done. We have some of the most sophisticated air surveillance programs in the world for our regulatory purpose at our disposal to collect information, to catch video and to collect evidence as well. We've been very effective in using those sorts of technologies to support our work.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you.

In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, my interest in this is that, yes, we have to ensure that we have proper reaction to this through the laws and regulations that we put forward, but that's after the fact, when the harm's already been done. I'm more interested in preventing it from being done in the first place, so that we don't have to get to that point.

From what you're telling me, that's happening to some extent. I think radar is probably the most effective with respect to the domains that you're actually looking over, and therefore, at the end of the day, we won't have to be in a court of law. We'll have dealt with the problem before it happened versus reacting to it after it happened.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

I want to say a huge thank you to Mr. Burns, Mr. Napier and Mr. Mes for appearing today. You're always quite co-operative to come either before we get going on the committee or at the end of a study. Thank you for your time today. I'm sure it will help us when we write our report.

I will adjourn the meeting, but I'd like for members, if they're available, to stick around for just a couple of minutes for me to say something.

The meeting is adjourned.