Evidence of meeting #11 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was enforcement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
I understand that you were a fishery officer when the notorious and very sad Burnt Church fiasco happened.
How close do you think we are to seeing another Burnt Church in our fishery with the tensions that are there now between first nations and non-first nations harvesters? Has the act done anything to inflame or de-escalate those tensions?
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
Up to probably six or seven weeks ago, I would have said that we're very close. The associations in southwest Nova Scotia and throughout the Maritimes have worked continuously with the industry to say, “Please stay calm. Do not do anything. Do not take action. Let the legal people, let the fishery officers and the RCMP deal with the criminality and take care of that.” In the last six weeks, however, we've seen an increase in enforcement activity in the actions, seizures and arrests, and we're grateful for that.
How close were we? We were extremely close. People are tired of seeing the same thing occur year after year.
Does the act help us right now with that? No.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
If the act doesn't help us, how certain can we be that, if we reopen the act, we'll come out with a finished product that will be the right thing for the time and the job? Is it possible that we'll have something produced, a piece of legislation that does no more for the industry than what we have now?
We've had so many witnesses come here and say that the act in its current form hasn't been enforced over the last five years, so how can we be certain that, if we reopen the act, things are going to be put into it that are going to actually do what needs to be done for owner-operators?
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
None of us can be perfect, but we can always try to do better. That's what I think we're trying to do. We're trying to do better.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Thank you.
Mr. Hutchings, we've heard a lot of talk today and over the last few meetings, in fact, about corporate control in the Newfoundland and Labrador fishery.
Do you agree that there's a high degree of corporate control in the Newfoundland and Labrador fishery? You've had quite a lot of dealings and you have a lot of connections in the fishing industry on both sides, between processors and fish harvesters, right down there in your neck of the woods on the southern shore in fact.
What's your opinion on the state of the Newfoundland and Labrador fishery in terms of corporate concentration and neglect of the owner-operator policy being enforced?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm afraid I have to ask for a very brief answer to that, given that we're over the time.
Managing Director, Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation
Thank you.
It's always something that's predominant. You certainly have to have an ear to it.
I'd like a few seconds, but I don't think I have time. Look at our history and how we consolidated it from 250 plants down to where we are today. Any time you consolidate, there's always concern about making sure that everybody is benefiting as they should from the industry.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Small.
Next, we're going to Mr. Klassen for five minutes.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all the witnesses. We've heard some pretty interesting witness testimony here today.
Mr. Fleck, thank you for submitting your statements ahead of time. It was good to have a little time to digest what you were recommending. You had four recommendations in your conclusion, with one of them being the commercial licensing policy for Atlantic Canada. I'm curious about this.
When we're looking at the act, are you suggesting that there would be parts that apply differently in Atlantic Canada and in Pacific Canada?
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
I believe that would be necessary. It's a different fishery on the west coast of B.C. I spent very little time working in B.C., but it's definitely a different fishery.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Yes, for sure, it is a different fishery. Do you think there are other parts of the act that should be separated so that the Pacific fisheries are dealt with differently from the Atlantic fisheries?
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
That could definitely be a possibility, yes.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Do you have any examples of that? Can you think of anything?
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
I can't for the west coast. I'm more familiar with the east coast, having spent the majority of my career in Atlantic Canada.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Okay.
You talked about indigenous licences versus non-indigenous licences. While we talk about owner-operators, commercial harvesters and indigenous knowledge, and how the minister may consider indigenous knowledge, do you think that all of the different harvesters—indigenous and non-indigenous—are equally listened to or included in decision-making?
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
I can't speak on behalf of the indigenous community. However, I believe that many times, the non-indigenous harvesters were not listened to about issues and things they were seeing on the water and in the environment, be it global warming or fish migration.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
You also mentioned the de-escalation that's happened in the last number of weeks. I'd like to think that some parts of the act were enforced by the officers. To what would you attribute the de-escalation that's happened in the last few weeks or months?
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
I'd attribute it to a change in leadership at the very top of the government.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
That's good to know. Thank you.
Mr. Nelson mentioned that enforcement officers should become full peace officers. I assume they would have additional training. How would you feel about enforcement officers becoming peace officers as well?
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
The additional training, in my opinion, would be minuscule. Fisheries officers are highly trained and very effective.
I believe people are concerned about the liability. What if they don't take action? Perhaps there's an impaired driver and they don't take action, and then that impaired driver kills someone down the road. There's liability because they could have taken action. They wouldn't necessarily be opening themselves up to some form of litigation, because they were acting outside of their powers, but they'd be sworn in to enforce the Fisheries Act as a peace officer.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Lastly, we've heard from a number of witnesses that the act really doesn't need to be changed; it just needs to be enforced more than it has been in the past. You have four recommendations. Do you think there is much more to the act that needs to be changed, or does it mostly need to be enforced a little more strictly?
Executive Director, Brazil Rock 33/34 Lobster Association
I was only given five minutes to read my statement. I would have provided a longer one. There are some aspects and portions of this that I neglected to read, just to try to stay within my time.
I believe the act needs to be opened, and some portions of it need to be revised to deal with those four items I mentioned earlier.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you.
We only have a few minutes. Mr. Connors has one more question and he would like to share my time.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
I'm sorry, I was looking at six minutes, not five.
Thank you very much.