Fisheries Committee on Nov. 6th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Good morning.

Welcome to meeting number 11 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

I want to start by acknowledging that we are gathered on the ancestral and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people and express gratitude that we're able to do the important work of this committee on lands they have stewarded since time immemorial.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is going to continue its study on the review of the Fisheries Act.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. Pursuant to the Standing Orders, members are attending in person and remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we continue, I would like to ask all in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio and feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, particularly the interpreters. You will also notice a QR code on the card, which links to a short awareness video.

Pursuant to our routine motions, I would like to advise committee members that all witnesses appearing virtually today have successfully conducted the required technical testing. However, it is great for our first panel that we have everybody here in person.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. Those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute your microphone when you are not speaking.

For interpretation, those on Zoom have the choice, at the bottom of their screen, of floor, English or French. Those in the room can use their earpiece and select the desired channel.

I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can.

We appreciate your patience.

With that, I would like to welcome our witnesses.

As individuals, we have Mr. Jimmy Lee Foss, fisherman; and Randy Nelson, former fishery officer and now director of conservation and protection. We also have, from the Maritime Gaspereau Industry Association, Jeramy Boudreau, president; and Troy Doucet, vice president.

We will start with opening statements of five minutes each or less from the witnesses.

Mr. Foss, we're going to start with you. I'll give you the floor for five minutes.

[Jimmy Lee Foss, Fisherman, As an Individual]

Thank you.

First of all, I'd like to start off by saying that I don't have higher education or anything like that. I feel pretty out of place here today, but I'll give it my best shot. Thanks to the committee for giving me the opportunity.

I'm a fisherman from La Scie, Newfoundland. I've fished pretty much all my life, like my father and grandfather before me. The fishery is very dear to me.

Long story short, a fishing boat went up for sale back home in La Scie. At the time, the prices were through the roof, with record prices to buy, to get in, so there weren't a lot of people jumping after this deal. I got approached after running boats and stuff back home, skippering on boats, and starting to make a name for myself, I guess. I got approached to get into this enterprise.

It all started with the owner, I guess, setting up a meeting between me and Mr. Quinlan from Quinlan Brothers. The rest is history. I went in there. I know that the only way in right now is through a merchant. It's sad, but true. I went in and entertained the meetings and stuff like that. My old man—my father—went with me for support. Mr. Quinlan was in charge of everything. He got the financing. The banks came to his office. We didn't go to the banks. He was in charge of everything. He picked the financier, with all kinds of fake backing to me, you know. It was, “Run along. We'll roll together, Jimmy. I've got your back. You're signing with the biggest crab producer in the world”, which he is. It was, “Run along. We'll roll together. We're business partners”. That gave me, I guess, the final push to go in. I knew I had good backing. I knew there wasn't much money in the business, but with Robin Quinlan behind me, I thought I would be okay.

Anyway, I caught my quota and did what I could. The first year, with record prices at $7.60 a pound, I could barely pay the interest on the thing. It was pretty much an impossible deal from the start. Quinlan knew that, but I was qualified to hold the quota because I'm a level II fisherman. He didn't want to lose that product in his plant is my belief. He buttered me up and convinced me to go into this deal. After a year or so.... I didn't know much about controlling agreements when I signed this deal. All I knew was, wow, I have a chance to get a longliner, my own own boat.

After a year or so in business with Robin, I wasn't happy at all with how things were going and how much control he had over what was supposed to be my business. I couldn't handle any money. I couldn't disburse money. I had to beg, actually, to get enough money to pay for fuel for the next trip. He ran the show. I wasn't happy about it. I did a bit of research on controlling agreements and corporate concentration, and I knew that this was a prime example of that. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that I was used—headhunted—and my family paid the price.

I mean, it's not something to be proud of, but eight or nine years ago, I had a side-by-side accident. My femur came out through the back of my leg and my arm came out. I spent 16 days in the Health Sciences Centre. I was off work for two years. I was forced to claim bankruptcy. I walked into Quinlan's office, still in bankruptcy, and walked out with $3.8 million. I'm not sure how that works, but that's a fact. I was still in bankruptcy and I walked out with $3.8 million to purchase this boat.

I don't want this to happen to someone else. My family has suffered more than any of you guys can even begin to imagine. My name took a big hit. My career took a big hit. The fact that I'm here doing this is going to cause me more hits to my career. Quinlan has so much control that there are many boats that won't take me now, just because of what I'm doing. It's nothing to do with my work or anything like that, but because they may be close to Quinlan or maybe Quinlan has quota on their boat, and they don't want to send my name in on the share arrangements anymore. I'm taking a big hit for this.

The other day, I believe it was Mr. Morrissey who asked Mr. Berry for an example of this corporate control and corporate concentration. Well, here it is. I'm right here and willing to answer anything.

The DFO investigation team wanted my quota frozen. I have that from the ATIP information I got from DFO. This was the best case that ever fell across the lead investigator's desk, but the upper management in DFO worked against their own investigation team every step of the way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Mr. Foss, I'm afraid I'm going to have to step in here because we're over the five-minute mark. Please wrap up very quickly as we need to go to the next witness.

[Jimmy Lee Foss]

I'd just like to say that I'm available for any questions, to provide any information and contacts, or whatever. I'm the example, so use me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Foss.

Next, we're going to Randy Nelson.

You have the floor for five minutes or less.

[Randy Nelson, As an Individual]

Thank you for the opportunity to share my insights as a former fishery officer and director of DFO. My goal is to highlight practical improvements that would strengthen enforcement of the existing Fisheries Act. I have provided two supporting documents outlining several concerns in more detail.

I have a number of recommendations.

One, designate fishery officers as full-time peace officers. This change is essential to improve officer safety and public protection. Across North America, resource officers face three to four times the likelihood of being killed on duty as compared with police officers. Currently, fishery officers are peace officers only when enforcing the Fisheries Act. For example, if officers board a vessel for a fisheries inspection and discover illegal drugs, their authority to act is legally uncertain. Any hesitation in such high-risk situations can be dangerous, and may leave officers without legal coverage if they intervene. Full peace officer designation would enhance safety and strengthen Canada's border security efforts.

Two, add fishery officers to the 25-year early retirement eligibility. Recent changes have extended this benefit to some Coast Guard, Parks Canada and corrections staff. Fishery officers deserve better treatment given the high risk and demanding nature of their duties.

Three, reduce the organizational structure of C and P, or conservation and protection. DFO's own reports have repeatedly recommended that enforcement officers report only to those with enforcement experience. I successfully helped advance a change at the area level to support this model, but a broader national review is needed.

Four, establish a committee reporting to DFO or to this committee, the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, with direct access to officers. A committee providing unfiltered, direct access to fishery officers across the country would ensure that the minister receives accurate information from the field. Most of DFO is managed by scientists and biologists. Those are essential roles, but operational decisions often lack frontline enforcement input or concerns for safety. As Véronique Chadillon-Farinacci testified here on October 23, officers are often afraid to speak out. This measure would fix that. I would be willing to assist in selecting members to ensure balance and credibility.

Five, re-establish an undercover special investigations unit within DFO. DFO Pacific previously operated an undercover enforcement unit twice in history, but both times it was disbanded due to budget cuts. Large-scale illegal fishing continues. This capacity should be reinstated nationwide.

Six, increase officer positions in the middle and upper Fraser River. This is the only Pacific region request. As shown in the documents provided, the Fraser River currently has fewer officers present in the summer than it did 50 years ago. This shortage must be addressed immediately.

Seven, strengthen relationships through restorative justice and indigenous partnerships. Promote such programs as restorative justice, liaison officers for each first nations band, and canoe journeys in all regions. These initiatives have proven highly effective in building trust and co-operation with stakeholders. I helped implement these measures in the Pacific region. We were the first resource agency in the world to use restorative justice to deal with violators.

Eight, improve pay and recruitment conditions for fishery officers. Recruits currently earn $350 a week for a 19-week training period, well below the poverty line. This deters qualified applicants. Competitive pay and better entry-level compensation are needed to attract and retain capable personnel.

Nine, place enforcement officers on all Coast Guard vessels. Canada's Coast Guard is likely the only major fleet in the western world without enforcement officers on board all vessels. Although DFO has improved midshore and offshore patrols with officers present, all Coast Guard vessels should carry enforcement staff to improve fisheries protection and national coastal security. Assigning Coast Guard vessels to Defence does not increase security unless enforcement personnel are part of the crew.

During my 35-year career, I testified on three major inquiries. I received over 25 national and international awards for my work. I wrote a book, Poachers, Polluters and Politics, about my career. It's been described as essential reading for DFO staff. I will have a number of copies, for those who want one, at the break. My second book, The Wildest Hunt, evolved into a television series that I host and narrate. It's about poaching all across North America.

My experience has given me deep insight into illegal fishing and wildlife activities across North America. These changes I have proposed would strengthen Fisheries Act enforcement; improve officer safety, morale and retention; and build stronger relationships with all stakeholders.

I retired 13 years ago, but I still care about Canada's fisheries resources.

I'm open to any questions you might have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nelson.

Next, we're going to go to Jeramy Boudreau. You and Mr. Doucet together have five minutes collectively for an opening statement.

I'll hand the floor over to you.

[Jeramy Boudreau, President, Maritime Gaspereau Industry Association]

My name is Jeramy Boudreau.

I'd like to thank the standing committee for the invitation today to discuss the Fisheries Act. I personally bring 25 years of experience in the fishery and business related to fishery. I started a boat shop in the last 10 years as an entrepreneur. It's family-run, owned and operated.

With that, in the last five years, my kids and I have invested in the gaspereau industry. Knowing that my kids were going to invest in the industry motivated me to really do some research on the long-term growth and health of the gaspereau industry. That led me to realize that there are a lot of issues that have been there for a long time. It also motivated me to start the Maritime Gaspereau Industry Association with other local fishers.

Once we started the association, Troy and I were appointed as vice president and president. Troy brings 40 years of experience to the table in this particular fishery and anything related to the Tusket River. In that time, he's also been a gaspereau buyer for 20 years. It makes up approximately 90% of his income and livelihood throughout the year. This has given him a big motivation to really study the impact on the ecosystem of the gaspereau fishery.

Along with taking in some history, Troy's knowledge and mine, doing investigations and other things, we found some key issues within this industry.

The lack of fish passage sometimes results in the death of fish. Section 34 of the Fisheries Act both mandates free passage of fish and regulates against the death of fish. This seems to be pretty clear. However, it's still a very big ongoing problem. There are a lot of dams without fish ladders. The ones that do have fish ladders don't have effective fish passage. This will often lead to fish backing up at the dams, at the ladders, moving back down and getting run out. They're not able to make their spawning ground. Sometimes, as in May 2022, this has led to hundreds of thousands of fish dying from lack of fish passage.

There's a lack of conservation and protection officers in the field. In my five years, there have been zero fishery officers able to make it on the water. There are very few in the actual field to enforce parts of the Fisheries Act, such as section 29. We know that this is definitely a lack of boots on the ground.

There's also the science. Science is a very important part. Under “Considerations”, paragraph 2.5(c) includes science in decisions for management options, yet we have very underfunded science. Every year we deal with one of a two-man team of scientists being laid off, potentially due to budget cuts. We're always working on decisions that are based on reactive instead of proactive science. That definitely needs to change.

We have recommendations from MGI for consideration. Add a definition to section 34 of the Fisheries Act in “Fish and Fish Habitat Protection and Pollution Prevention” that satisfies the minister on a timeline. Right now there's nothing there that says what that timeline is. It should be based on the life cycle of a fish. The timelines of how we get these things done are all based on protecting fish and fish habitat.

In section 34, we should also give a clear and concise maximum timeline to an “owner or person who has the charge, management or control of an obstruction” to become compliant once it's been deemed that an obstruction does not allow free fish passage. Over a decade of a migrating fish should not be an acceptable timeline with still no plan to actively deal with this obstruction.

Add a section in section 34.3 that the minister will take charge of an obstruction or repair it if the owner doesn't become compliant within a timeline that satisfies the minister.

On the enforcement side, for any open seasons of a fishery, it should be mandatory to have some form of enforcement. We know the C and P officers are understaffed.

On science—

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Mr. Boudreau, I'm afraid I have to interject. We are over the time. If you could, please wrap it up. There will be time to get to this in the question rounds too.

[Jeramy Boudreau]

I'd like to thank the panel for inviting us. We're open to any questions related to any of this.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Boudreau.

With that, we'll go to the first round of questioning, which is the six-minute round, starting with Mr. Small.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I extend a warm welcome to the witnesses for coming here this morning for this study.

My first question is for Mr. Foss.

Based on your dealings with the folks who were trying to prosecute your case, was it ever said that the Fisheries Act was weak in protecting the owner-operator principle?

[Jimmy Lee Foss]

The vibe I got is that there is a good system in place—if only it was enforced. It's pretty simple. Nobody has been charged over the years for this. From the vibe I got, Cliff, it's there if we want to enforce it, and that falls on DFO.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Would you like to explain a bit more about what happened in your situation and how far the investigation went?

[Jimmy Lee Foss]

It went to the top levels, as far as I know. It was here in Ottawa. The fisheries minister.... It went as far as it could. The investigation team and DFO brought it to the Public Prosecution Service of Canada. We left no stone unturned, but it didn't seem to make a difference. Upper management at DFO simply went against its own investigation team every step of the way. I'm not sure why, and I don't think the investigation team knows why.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

How widespread are these controlling agreements throughout the industry? I don't mean in just Newfoundland and Labrador; I'm sure you know people in other parts of Atlantic Canada as well.

[Jimmy Lee Foss]

They're very widespread. They're very hard to talk about, mostly because of the repercussions of talking about them. It affects your career.

These merchants have so much control that there are lots of boats now that I'll never get on again just because of my fight. It's everywhere, Cliff, but you finally have someone who's willing to speak about it. I've lost everything. I lost my business and they tried to take my home. I have nothing left to lose.

I have a young boy who's addicted to this stuff—and by “addicted”, I mean addicted—so I feel like I have to try to make some sort of difference for him. The quota belongs with the people, not the merchants. It's just not the way it's supposed to be.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

In your opinion, is there a need to reopen the Fisheries Act to protect owner-operators, or is it sufficient the way it is, other than the enforcement of the act?

[Jimmy Lee Foss]

For me, it's the complete lack of enforcement. I think the investigation team felt pretty useless and frustrated. They were fair to me the whole way through, but their higher-ups couldn't do their job, Cliff. That's what I got out of it. They were shut down every step of the way.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Do you think there's possible political interference?

[Jimmy Lee Foss]

I was actually told by a very good source within DFO that there was political interference at a very high level. I don't know any more than that, but that's what I was told, and it's the only conclusion the investigation team could come to, I think.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Foss.

My next question is for Mr. Boudreau.

Is there a problem with the act in its current form, or is there a problem with the enforcement of the act?

[Jeramy Boudreau]

I would say that when it comes to the fish passage, there is definitely a problem with enforcement. I've studied the act for the last week and a half, and I see very little holes in what should be there for fish passage. It seems pretty clear in section 34 of the Fisheries Act, but there doesn't seem to be any mandatory enforcement of it. There's even a spot that spells out how much should be charged on the first, second or third offence, whether it's a corporation, a small corporation or an individual, yet as far as I'm aware, there's never been a charge laid for this, even with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of fish.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

What's been the impact on your livelihood or what you perceived your livelihood would be at this time based on what you've told us here this morning?

[Jeramy Boudreau]

For us, personally, on the Tusket River and surrounding areas—they use the Tusket River as an indexing river for all of Yarmouth county— currently the combined fish ladders that Nova Scotia Power has don't have the capacity to do 10% of what the upward watershed area has for a spawning ground. The DFO science says that above the fish ladders in the spawning area, there are 22 million fish. The maximum capacity we have is about 2.5 million, so we're not even 10%, and they continuously take away days from us to try and keep a healthy stock.