Evidence of meeting #13 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was enforcement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll turn to my colleague, Peter Lambertucci.
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We do have a very robust international program that we operate with a number of our international partners against illegal, unreported and undetected fishing. Those programs benefit Canadians substantially by pushing out our borders and apprehending those who are involved in IUU fishing—illegal, unreported and undetected fishing. We've had tremendous successes in recent years and a number of convictions based on referrals we've made in the areas of salmon and dolphin.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
What is the situation in Canadian waters?
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
In terms of how we enforce in Canadian waters, if I'm understanding the question properly, we undertake that same evidence-based, intelligence-supported initiative to allocate our capacity and our resources to the highest priority.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
I have time for only one more series here.
There seems to be a different approach to conservation and protection enforcement in recent weeks and months in your department.
Have you been directed, or have you taken your own direction that is different from that of your predecessors when it comes to C and P enforcement and prosecution within your department?
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
This again, speaks to the law enforcement independence that I enjoy as the leader of C and P and that our investigators employ in the course of their duty.
We have focused on those highest priorities, based on that intelligence-supported and evidence-led priority, which has shifted our focus and the reassignment of resources to enforcement.
Conservative
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
These are directions that I've implemented since I onboarded. In regard to directions before me, I can't speak to that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Arnold.
Next, we're going to go to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Chair.
My first question is for Monsieur Vigneault.
We've had two witnesses give testimony on fish habitat restoration. They highly recommend that this be changed to allow for overall net gain—establishing destroyed fish habitat in one area and replacing it someplace else—which seems reasonable. Could you give us your opinion on that from the departmental side? It seems like a very reasonable request. I think there's too much energy being put into ensuring that if you move a stone here, it has to be replaced in the same area instead of the overall management of the habitat for the betterment of the fishery.
What are your thoughts?
Bernard Vigneault Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
At DFO science, we've been providing science advice on the question of offsetting for a number of years. The idea is to make sure that the approaches that are taken are efficient overall.
The mechanism involved in terms of what you're referring to is more a management question than a science question, so I'm wondering if my colleague Kate Ladell could add to that.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
No, that's fine. From a science perspective, would you see, having taken that option, an overall detrimental impact on any species?
Director General, Ecosystem Science Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
What we've recommended in terms of science for offsetting in general, regardless of the mechanism, is to have monitoring and best practices in place so that we can measure the efficiency of the measures overall, regardless of what option has been selected from a management perspective.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Okay. I didn't sense any concern from a biological or science perspective on following the recommendation.
Mr. Lambertucci, in doing investigative work, what would be the timeline for a typical case from the time a charge may be laid? Somebody doesn't arrive at a wharf and lay a charge when they arrive there. Could you give a bit of an overview on the timeline it would take before a charge would be laid?
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The investigative timeline changes based on the complexity and scope of the investigation. It could take anywhere from a number of weeks to a number of months to a number of years, depending on the complexity of the investigation. Once that investigation concludes, that is when the case preparation begins and our consultation with the Public Prosecution Service of Canada takes over. When we refer those investigations seeking charge approval, that approval can also take a number of months, if not longer.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Needless to say, any charge that was laid in the last few days wouldn't have been made, or the information wouldn't have been gathered in the last 24 hours or direction occurred within a week or so.
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That is correct.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
It's correct. Good. That's for the record.
My other question is in the area of DFO officers, maybe at a lower level, receiving direction to not move at a particular time. Were there cases where, at a senior level, looking at a larger case impacting a host of other areas, the direction may be to not move at this time because it could jeopardize a greater case? Would that be a typical investigative process that would be followed?
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There are a number of factors with interdependencies between investigations, but this also speaks to the interdependencies we enjoy with some of our municipal, provincial and federal law enforcement agencies. There are moments of deconfliction where the cadence of an investigation is paced to ensure that we are working hand in glove—
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
A local junior officer could get a particular direction from a superior because of the superior having understanding from other forces that, for lack of a better term, now would not be the best time to move.
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There would be governance over that.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Good. It's the overall enforcement and the protection of that.
In the time I have left, you made reference to the reassignment of resources. How is the department resourced today for enforcement versus even five or six years ago? When I first came on this committee, the whole protection division was severely depleted for personnel. What's it like today?
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We experienced a reduction in resources over prior years. We're currently resourced at a state and level where to bring support to the officers and capacity to our core priorities, we augment those resources. As a national institution, we have the luxury of being able to relocate officers for indeterminate periods of time.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
What is the number of personnel in the field today versus a number of years ago?
National Chief Enforcement Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That is approximately 700 fishery officers.