Fisheries Committee on Nov. 20th, 2025

[Peter Lambertucci]

Yes, I have reviewed that Enquête presentation.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Are you concerned about that information?

[Peter Lambertucci]

I take my accountabilities very seriously when it comes to legislation around harassment and violence in the workplace. To hear that there are reports of fear of reciprocity amongst the officers.... I can say that we would approach anything of that nature with ferocity. We do investigate how harassment and violence prevention in the workplace is administered. We have very strong controls and governance in that place. We have a number of supports in that place.

I have not, since hearing those comments from the committee, had anything presented to me from a concrete position in terms of a fact-based or evidence-based case-to-case situation. That is not to say that if they were presented, we wouldn't pursue those allegations with ferocity.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Mr. Lambertucci, I have a proposal for you. You're correct. We have heard testimony, but we have not yet received any directly from fisheries officers.

That said, some of your fisheries officers have contacted us over the past few days. They described some rather troubling situations. These people are afraid to testify here because they fear reprisals from Fisheries and Oceans Canada authorities.

If your goal is to shed light on this—as is ours—and to assess each case to understand what happened and improve things, are you prepared today to tell fishery officers, particularly those listening to us, that they can come and testify before the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans in public and that they will not suffer reprisals from Fisheries and Oceans Canada?

[Peter Lambertucci]

Although I'm unfamiliar with the fisheries officers with whom you've been speaking, we do operate in an environment of transparency, accountability and authenticity. Fisheries officers could come forward at the invitation of this committee and share those views.

I would suggest that there may be instances where in camera presentation may be more suitable for perhaps the sensitivities of the discussions that are being addressed, but fisheries officers would have an unfettered opportunity to appear and answer questions from the committee.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

As I understand it, you see no problem with fisheries officers coming to tell their stories. We can determine whether this should be done confidentially, but there would be no reprisals from Fisheries and Oceans Canada against fisheries officers who come forward to tell us how things are going on their side.

Is that correct?

[Peter Lambertucci]

I'm very prepared to work with the committee and supply a list of fisheries officers who could present that testimony or witness presentation for this committee.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

I want to make this very clear. As I told you, there are currently fisheries officers who are reluctant to come and testify.

Can you confirm that they can come forward and testify, without fear of reprisals by Fisheries and Oceans Canada authorities?

[Peter Lambertucci]

As stated earlier, we run a very strongly governed, transparent and accountable process. Part of the presentation of witnesses at this committee is how we will learn, develop, grow and collaborate moving forward. There would be no fear of reprisal for people who appear before this committee and provide testimony to the best of their ability.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lambertucci. That will help us shed light on the issue.

I would like to use my remaining time to ask you if you are aware of a directive that was given to fisheries officers by Fisheries and Oceans Canada authorities.

They were told that if they approached an individual who was fishing for lobster for food, social or ritual purposes, and found that the person was doing something illegal, such as possessing female lobsters carrying eggs, they should not issue a ticket, but give them promotional materials and a warning instead.

Are you aware of that?

[Peter Lambertucci]

I just want to ensure clarity of my understanding of the message that the directives that you are speaking of relate to law enforcement officers' independence to use judgment throughout the enforcement continuum that we apply as part of the tools that we engage in that enforcement continuum. Those tools can involve education, ticketing, arrest and release, seizure of gear or, ultimately, submission of charge request packages to the Public Prosecution Service of Canada.

I'd also like to add that we have a right to protect the rights-based fisheries and FSC as well. These are sometimes highly charged situations, and our fisheries officers do an outstanding job in those situations and implement their best judgment on what part of the enforcement continuum to implement, be it education, ticketing or further elements of that enforcement continuum.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Deschênes.

That concludes the first round of questions.

We're going to start the second round of five minutes, with Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank all of the department officials for being here today.

I'll start with Mr. Burns.

Mr. Burns, this study has exposed some troubling evidence regarding how DFO deals or does not deal with illegal fisheries activities. Were you at DFO in 2018, when Minister LeBlanc was leading the department?

[Adam Burns]

Yes, I was.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

In 2018, Minister LeBlanc literally made headlines after he stated that he wanted to name and shame countries involved in massive illegal fishing of Pacific salmon. This naming and shaming never happened.

Do you know why the fisheries minister waffled on naming and shaming bad actors that illegally harvest Pacific salmon?

[Adam Burns]

Since that time, Canada has successfully implemented at the North Pacific Fisheries Commission an international rule that prohibits the retention of Pacific salmon in the conduct of other fisheries, which makes it far easier for international enforcement, including by Canada and in Operation North Pacific Guard, to detect illegal salmon fishing. Those measures greatly protect Pacific salmon as they spend their time in the North Pacific.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

At around the same time, Minister LeBlanc made a statement that a satellite photo had been seen that showed an eight-kilometre-long net that was scooping more than 400,000 kilograms of wild salmon in the Pacific Ocean.

Mr. Burns, can you think of a reason why a fisheries minister should not expose such perpetration of illegal harvest on such a massive scale?

[Adam Burns]

Again, Canada has made significant investments in recent years for enforcement on the high seas in the North Pacific. In the last number of years, we've had enforcement vessel presence—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Has DFO named and shamed?

[Adam Burns]

We have, indeed, taken action against—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Have you named and shamed? Have you named the perpetrators?

[Adam Burns]

The process in international law for us to undertake this is to work with the flag states in order to ensure enforcement actions take place against those vessels.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Are you aware of any provisions in the Fisheries Act for the Government of Canada to resource or enforce fisheries laws or regulations overseas?

[Adam Burns]

The Fisheries Act is not the legislation that provides those authorities. We do have other legislation, such as the Coastal Fisheries Protection Act, as well as international law, that affords Canadian enforcement officers the authority to undertake inspection and enforcement on the high seas.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Thank you.

The Fisheries Act does contain provisions for fisheries enforcement in Canadian waters, but a growing body of evidence has stated that enforcement is selective and not happening adequately.

Mr. Burns, you have insights into how the DFO operates. In your opinion, why is it that Canada funds surveillance of illegal fishing overseas but does not fund the same activities for enforcement in Canadian waters?