Fisheries Committee on Nov. 25th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 14 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

I do want to start by acknowledging that we are gathered on the ancestral and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people, and to express gratitude that we're able to do the important work of this committee on lands they've stewarded since time immemorial.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is meeting to hear from the Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development on its report entitled “Establishing Marine Protected Areas” and to hear from the three audited organizations in this report.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. Pursuant to the Standing Orders, members are attending in person and remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we continue, I would like to ask all in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio and feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, but particularly the interpreters. You'll also notice a QR code on the card, which links to a short awareness video.

Pursuant to the routine motions, I'd like to advise committee members that all witnesses appearing virtually today have successfully conducted their required technical testing.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefits of the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic and please mute yourself when you're not speaking.

For interpretation, those on Zoom have a choice at the bottom of the screen: floor, English or French. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

As a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Members in the room who wish to speak, please raise your hand. Members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your patience.

With that, I would like to welcome our witnesses. I won't name all 11 officials with their titles, but I would like to start by welcoming Jerry V. DeMarco, commissioner of the environment and sustainable development since 2021; and the other officials from the Office of the Auditor General.

We also have officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, from the Department of the Environment and Climate Change, and from the Parks Canada Agency.

As we did during the commissioner's last appearance, in February 2024, we will begin with opening remarks from each organization, which will be five minutes each. We will start with Mr. DeMarco.

Mr. DeMarco, the floor is yours.

[Jerry V. DeMarco, Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

I am pleased to be here to discuss my report on establishing marine protected areas, which was tabled in Parliament on November 6.

I would like to acknowledge that this hearing is taking place on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

I am accompanied by Susan Gomez, Jessica Johnston and Carey Agnew.

The report was one of three related audits on protected areas that were tabled together. The other two were on establishing terrestrial protected areas and on federal indigenous management of protected areas, including marine areas.

In our audit on establishing marine and coastal protected areas, we looked at whether Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Parks Canada, and Environment and Climate Change Canada were on track to establish protected and conserved areas covering 25% of Canada's marine and coastal ecosystems by 2025. We also examined whether these organizations were planning to protect and conserve areas covering 30% of marine and coastal ecosystems by 2030, ensuring that these areas are ecologically representative and important for biodiversity and ecosystem health.

We concluded that Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Parks Canada, and Environment and Climate Change Canada were not on track to meet the 2025 target of 25%. During the audit period, the marine and coastal areas that were protected and conserved increased from 12.5% to 15.5%.

While this is far from the target of 25% by the end of this year, it is still a significant improvement from the less than 1% that was protected and conserved as of 2015.

We found that the three organizations had not developed a plan to meet the 2030 target of establishing a network to cover 30% of marine and coastal areas, including zones important to biodiversity and ecosystem health. Although the audit found that the three organizations had completed some important steps, such as identifying candidate areas for protection, they had not updated their collaborative framework to achieve the quantitative and qualitative elements of the 2030 target. This includes areas being well connected and representative of ecological diversity.

We also found that the three organizations had not developed clear guidance to implement the federal marine protection standard. This standard is intended to prohibit harmful activities in marine protected areas, such as oil and gas exploration, mining and bottom trawling.

Even though Canada is not on track to meet the 2025 target, the organizations made progress during the audit period. They undertook foundational work to protect and conserve marine and coastal areas, including identifying areas of interest for protection, and undertaking feasibility assessments.

At a time when the federal government is seeking to expedite approvals for major projects of national importance, providing certainty about which areas are protected and conserved will support informed decision-making.

Marine and coastal areas play a critical role in addressing the biodiversity and climate crises. The federal government must continue building on the actions taken to date if it is to complete a well-connected and representative network that protects and conserves 30% of marine and coastal areas by 2030, even if it misses the 2025 target.

Mr. Chair, this concludes my opening statement. We would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Commissioner DeMarco.

With that, we're going to Kathy Graham, director general of marine planning and conservation at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

You have the floor for five minutes or less.

[Kathy Graham, Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Chair and committee members, thank you for inviting me to speak today.

I would also like to acknowledge that I'm speaking from the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe.

Commissioner DeMarco, thank you for presenting the audit findings. DFO agrees with the recommendations and recognizes their role in strengthening the department's work and accountability.

DFO is committed to conserving and protecting Canada's oceans through partnerships with indigenous people, provinces and territories supported by robust science and thorough consultations with stakeholders, including industry. We continue to consider best available science and knowledge, carefully assess economic impacts and ensure thoughtful and inclusive decision-making, which takes time.

Canada's oceans are vital for our economy and livelihoods, contributing nearly $52 billion in GDP and sustaining 420,000 jobs, including more than 66,000 in the seafood industry. Oceans are also critical in our efforts to fight climate change and biodiversity loss.

Marine protected and conserved areas help protect species, habitats and ecosystems that support our sustainable fishing industry. They also provide social, cultural and economic benefits and enhance recreation, tourism and research opportunities. Investing in marine conservation helps keep the ocean healthy, supports sustainable growth in the ocean industries and ensures these benefits last for future generations.

Since 2015, Canada has advanced from conserving only 1% of marine and coastal areas to over 15%. This remarkable achievement is based on collaboration, partnerships and significant engagement with stakeholders as we design site-specific marine protected areas that minimize impact.

Canada has also signed the Great Bear Sea and SINAA historic agreements to support large-scale, indigenous-led conservation projects using an innovative financial model known as project finance for permanence, PFP. These agreements leverage government and private funding to combine conservation with support for local economies, forecasting significant dividends.

The Great Bear Sea PFP off the coast of B.C. is expected to create 3,000 jobs and 200 businesses and conserve highly valuable and biologically productive marine areas. The SINAA PFP in the Qikiqtani Region of Nunavut will support Inuit-led conservation and regional governance, including much-needed community infrastructure, projecting 50 new jobs with potential areas that anticipate to contribute up to 3.68% towards marine conservation targets.

Additional investments through grants and contributions have resulted in more than 6,700 collaborative partnerships, over 1,700 jobs, nearly 18,000 people trained and more than 1,200 new research and technical products developed. These partnerships provide a strong foundation for achieving 30% by 2030.

In addition, there are other benefits that are being delivered through investments in marine protected and conserved areas. As an example, 10 years in, monitoring Eastport marine protected area in Newfoundland showed larger lobsters and more egg-bearing females inside the MPA, with benefits extending to the surrounding ecosystem.

The Banc-des-Américains marine protected area in Quebec supports whale-watching activities and helps promote tourism and recreation in the region.

The SG̲áan Kínghlas-Bowie Seamount marine protected area in B.C. spurred deep-sea research innovations such as remote-operated vehicles, multi-beam sonar, eDNA sampling and livestreamed expeditions.

These many benefits are tied to Canada's approach, which is based on the three guiding principles of science-based decision-making: consideration of indigenous knowledge; transparency and meaningful consultation with partners and stakeholders; and advancing reconciliation with indigenous peoples.

We are recognized internationally for our thoughtful, collaborative approach and our innovation. We use peer-reviewed science evidence to identify sites that warrant protection. We prioritize areas that are important for biodiversity, like, for example, areas that are home to species at risk, glass sponge reefs and spawning or nursery grounds, which contribute to a sustainable fishery.

DFO also invests heavily in collaborative science, funding hundreds of projects annually. Many involve commercial fishers providing real-time data. We use advanced geospatial tools to ensure decisions are data-driven, and we continue to work with industry to improve our baseline data to address any gaps.

Canada's protected and conserved areas aim to maximize conservation outcomes while minimizing economic impacts. We consult early and extensively with industry to assess potential socio-economic impacts and often adjust site design and boundaries. Transparency and meaningful consultation are at the heart of our work. We strive for a no-surprise approach, sharing information about proposed sites early and providing opportunities for input at every step in the process.

In the past five years, we've conducted more than 6,800 engagement meetings Canada-wide, which included large-scale consultations on both the west and east coasts of our country. We also participate in industry-led initiatives, like the coastal MPA blueprint in the Maritimes, because there is tremendous value in collaborating with the fishing industry.

Partnerships with indigenous people are central to our approach. Co-management agreements are in place for many protected and conserved areas. We remain committed to supporting lasting partnerships through indigenous-led conservation.

I trust this reflects the work we are undertaking to meet the commitment of this government. Canadians can be confident that marine conservation is being pursued in a way that delivers lasting ecological outcomes.

Thank you, Chair.

I am open to questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much.

Next we're going to go to Tara Shannon, the assistant deputy minister of the Canadian wildlife service at Environment and Climate Change Canada.

You'll have the floor for five minutes.

[Tara Shannon, Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Wildlife Service, Department of the Environment]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that we are gathered on the traditional territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin nation.

At the Canadian wildlife service, our mission is to protect wildlife and the places they call home, especially migratory birds and species at risk. Canada's oceans and coasts are vital to that work. They support biodiversity, help fight climate change and connect communities across the country.

We have reviewed the commissioner's recent audit on marine protected areas and are working closely with Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Parks Canada to respond. We are improving how we apply federal protection standards and how we share information with Canadians.

Right now, the Canadian wildlife service manages 55 marine sites, including the Scott Islands off Vancouver Island, Canada's first fully marine national wildlife area. It protects nesting grounds for 40% of British Columbia's seabirds. We are also exploring a new protected area in Haida Gwaii, an ecologically rich and culturally significant place, working closely with the Haida Nation council every step of the way.

Our priority is to protect nature, build partnerships and make sure that Canadians can see and understand the progress we're making.

Thank you for your time. I look forward to any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much.

Next we're going to go to David Millar, vice-president of protected areas establishment and conservation at Parks Canada.

Mr. Millar, you have the floor for five minutes.

[David Millar, Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency]

Thank you for the invitation to join you today. It's a pleasure to join the members to discuss Parks Canada's national marine conservation areas.

I'd also like to begin by acknowledging that we're meeting on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Parks Canada was pleased to participate in the marine protected areas audit. The commissioner’s findings will help guide us as we establish new protected areas and strengthen the management of existing ones. We agree with the recommendations and will be working with our colleagues to implement them.

National marine conservation areas play a vital role in conserving biodiversity, protecting culturally significant places and supporting the long-term sustainability of the ecosystems that coastal communities, industries and future generations rely on. They can also create opportunities for tourism and recreation and bring new investment and economic activity to coastal communities.

As impacts from climate change grow, the need for well-designed, effective marine protected areas has never been greater. These areas host natural features that help sustain resilient ecosystems.

Creating these areas is not something government can or should do alone. Success depends on meaningful collaboration. Working hand in hand with indigenous peoples, provinces and territories, industry partners, local communities and other stakeholders is essential to ensuring these national marine conservation areas, NMCAs, are both ecologically strong and socially viable.

By bringing these perspectives together early and consistently, we can design national marine conservation areas that achieve both conservation and socio-economic benefits for Canadians.

We acknowledge that working in this way takes time, but it is the right way to proceed. The commissioner noted in their report on federal-indigenous management of protected areas that if we are to achieve our goal of building a resilient network of protected areas that covers 30% of Canada by 2030, we will need to continue to prioritize the co-operative management of protected areas in keeping with the principles of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Parks Canada is committed to doing so.

Ultimately, national marine conservation areas are about creating a future where healthy oceans create the conditions for both thriving ecosystems and vibrant indigenous and local communities. That future is only possible when all partners sit at the table, shape the vision and help to turn it into reality.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much.

That concludes our opening remarks. With that, we're going to move right into the first round of questioning, the six-minute round, starting with Mr. Small.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming out today for this meeting.

Ms. Graham, are you familiar with the St. Anns Bank marine protected area off Cape Breton?

[Kathy Graham]

Yes.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Are you familiar with the promise that was made to halibut fishermen that they be allowed to continue fishing halibut in all of that area?

[Kathy Graham]

I'm not, sir.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

You're not familiar with the promise that was made to the fishing industry stakeholders?

[Kathy Graham]

I'm not familiar with that one specifically, no, sir.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Mr. DeMarco, you're wondering what's slowing down these processes. Do you think that a fishing industry that was told that it would have 100% access for longlining halibut in a marine protected area only to find out that that's cut down to 50% when the reality comes...? What do you think that does for trust in the process from fishing industry and other marine stakeholders?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

I'm not familiar with the facts of that specific site, but I would like to comment on the general notion of proper consultation. To not only establish protected areas to meet these targets that we're talking about today but also sustain them in terms of community buy-in and industry buy-in, it is important to properly consult, as we noted in our report. To the extent that the three departments make that effort to achieve that buy-in, the more likely there will be support for the establishment of those areas and for sustaining those protected and conserved areas. I'm fully in support of proper consultation, not only for the short-term gain of establishing the protected areas but also for sustaining them with community support.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Thank you.

In terms of fishing activity in marine protected areas, bottom-trawling gear is constantly cited as fishing equipment to be banned. However, hook and line is banned in the Funk Island Deep marine protected area and in the Hawke Channel.

Ms. Graham, have you ever had a baited cod or halibut hook in your hand?

[Kathy Graham]

I have not.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

So, what are you protecting the bottom from? You know, this is a static closure. Oceans have currents; fish have tails. Basically, a baited hook.... You'd have to try real hard to stick that hook in your finger. You'd have to chew on it like a fish. So, why would you ban the most environmentally sensible fishing technology in the world from an area such as the Funk Island Deep, the Hawke Channel or St. Anns Bank?

[Kathy Graham]

Mr. Chair, when we decide and undertake to establish a marine protected area, tremendous effort is put into the design of that area, including understanding what the conservation objectives are that we are seeking to actually achieve. Based on those conservation objectives, all the human activities that are occurring within that area are put through a risk assessment to understand if the activities that are currently taking place in that area will pose a conservation risk. In the examples that are being raised, if those types of fishing gear have been deemed to pose a risk to that conservation objective, then the conservation measures are tailored to only limit the activities that pose the risk to the conservation objectives.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Ms. Graham, under this Liberal government's 30 by 30 policy and this tremendous push to keep up with a numbers game.... Thirty is a number and 2030 is a number as well, so it's a numbers game. If you had to evaluate the trust from the fishing industry, from the oil and gas industry, from those who transit through certain areas of the ocean, what do you think the trust is in your process on a scale of zero to 10 right now?

[Kathy Graham]

I would say, Mr. Chair, that we've worked extensively with all of the—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

You must have a feel for it, Ms. Graham. You're dealing with the fishing industry stakeholders.

What's the trust level? Could you rate it from zero to 10?

[Kathy Graham]

Based on interactions we've had with all of the actors, there is a strong level of confidence and trust in terms of the work we're doing.