Evidence of meeting #20 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was area.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Prof. Ray Hilborn
Climate change is a big one. That's the big threat. They can't do anything much in the ocean about that, but for the things they can control, effective fisheries management is much more effective than simply closing areas.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
The proposed bans to protect marine biodiversity also include bans on oil and gas exploration and extraction, as well as dumping of waste and other materials at sea.
Wouldn't those bans protect biodiversity?
Prof. Ray Hilborn
Yes, certainly.
In the grand scheme of changes in marine biodiversity, those have not been major factors, but banning those activities certainly is a good step. It's not as if it's a major problem that is going to cause a measurable change in marine biodiversity.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
What you're saying is that if we simply managed fisheries better, we wouldn't need to establish marine protected areas. Is that right?
Prof. Ray Hilborn
Well, again, it depends on what your objective is.
If your objective is to have marine ecosystems that are healthy and functioning and producing benefits to society in the form of food and employment, we don't really need marine protected areas as long as we have effective fisheries management.
In very small-scale specific cases, there might be contrary examples, but the idea that we need to close 30% of the oceans to fishing to protect marine biodiversity is not the case in Canada.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Let's say that in marine protected areas, bans are defined based on conservation goals and that certain types of fishing are allowed, while the types of fishing that could compromise stocks are banned, or at least bans are tailored to each marine protected area. Don't you think that would be a win?
Prof. Ray Hilborn
Yes, certainly.
If you can identify specifically what fishing is affecting in the biodiversity and what your concern is, then you could have site-by-site differences.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Deschênes.
We have six minutes left.
For the next round, we'll just do three minutes and three minutes.
Mr. Small is next.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to welcome the witnesses here today.
Mr. Chair, on November 25, we had officials here Environment, Fisheries and Oceans, and Parks Canada. When asked what goals they expected to achieve by this current government signing on to the 30 by 30, whereby 30% of oceans are shut down to use by 2030, the goal was, they said, to increase carbon retention and carbon capture in the ocean and slow down climate change.
Ms. Lindsay, do you think shutting down the use of geoduck divers, halibut hook-and-line people and pot-trap-type fishing equipment will stop climate change?
Commercial Fisheries Representative, Underwater Harvesters Association, BC Seafood Alliance
No.
It will become more competitive for our fisheries like spot prawns. For example, when you close certain areas, the areas that remain open will be more competitive. You'll have to run farther to go to fishing grounds. A big concern would be this fragmented access, which would burn more fuel.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Instead of what these officials said, the opposite is true, do you think? It would increase the carbon footprint of the fishery.
Commercial Fisheries Representative, Underwater Harvesters Association, BC Seafood Alliance
Yes.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Thank you.
Mr. Hilborn, more than 10 acts of Parliament protect 100% of Canada's oceans.
Do you think that signing on to the 30 by 30 United Nations convention gives us ocean protection? Or has the current government sold out coastal communities to the United Nations?
Prof. Ray Hilborn
Remember that the 30 by 30 isn't a commitment to 30 by 30 closed areas to fishing. It's a protection including other effective conservation measures. I think Canada can easily achieve that with very minimal impact to the fishing industry, but it requires working hard in the design of that.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Are you familiar with the “open standards” for conservation that many of these conservation areas use as a guideline when these areas are designed?
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Well, I just stumbled across this:
The biodiversity conservation community is tackling large, complex, and urgent environmental problems where the stakes are high. However, we don’t have a fully functional system to assess the effectiveness of our actions. Without more rigorous measurement of effectiveness and disciplined recording of our efforts, we cannot know or demonstrate that we are achieving desired results.
I found the link off the CPAWS website. What do you think of that standard that groups like CPAWS are basing their judgment on?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm sorry. I'm afraid I'm going to have to jump in here. We're well over time.
Professor Hilborn, if you'd like to respond to that, please make sure you do so in writing. We have to move on to our next speaker.
Mr. Connors, you have three minutes.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
Good day.
Mr. Dovey, you mentioned marine refuge here in a number of ways. What is the difference between a marine refuge and a marine protected area—or is there a difference?
Vice-President, BC Seafood Alliance
They both would qualify as marine conserved areas under ECCC or national targets. It has to do with the implementation tool. I think it's the Fisheries Act that is used to implement marine refuges, whereas it's the Oceans Act for Oceans Act tools and ECCC legislation for national marine conservation areas, for example. It's just a different implementation tool.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
It was stated in a previous meeting here that there were other acts to protect and preserve the oceans. Is that correct?
Vice-President, BC Seafood Alliance
Yes, I would say so. The Fisheries Act preserves and protects the oceans through the fish management we're required to do.
Liberal
Paul Connors Liberal Avalon, NL
Okay.
Ms. Lindsay, in the minute I have left, perhaps you can fill in, if you want, on marine biodiversity and conservation. What does that mean to a commercial fisherman? How would you describe that from a commercial fisherman's perspective? How would you protect it?
Commercial Fisheries Representative, Underwater Harvesters Association, BC Seafood Alliance
As I think I mentioned in my introduction, we don't have anything if we don't have a healthy marine biome as commercial fishermen in Canada and around the world, obviously. If we're not protecting our oceans—which we are through effective fisheries management—we don't have a livelihood. We have five- and six-generation halibut fishermen who have been doing it on the B.C. coast for many generations. We've been protecting our oceans for many years.