Fisheries Committee on Jan. 28th, 2026

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you Chair. That's fine. I'll conclude with that.

[Ian MacPherson]

I would just add, Chair, that what Mr. Morrissey said there is very true. Typically, fishers find that, when there are proposed areas, DFO has selected them, so it immediately gets things off on the wrong foot.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. MacPherson.

I move now to Mr. Deschênes for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Edinger.

You talked a lot about corals. Why is it important to protect corals?

[Dr. Evan Edinger]

They are extremely sensitive habitats that provide habitat for many other species. If you remove those habitats, then that dramatically reduces the quantity and quality of the habitat for the other species that depend upon them, including some commercial species. For example, in the Laurentian Channel marine protected area, which is between Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, we know that the sea pens, another kind of deep-sea coral that lives there—they do not live as long, only about 40 to 50 years—provide very important habitat for the juveniles of a number of fish species, including commercial fish species.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

How do you think marine protected areas should be monitored? What do you think the government should do to ensure compliance with the bans?

[Dr. Evan Edinger]

When you say “la surveillance”, I'm thinking of monitoring as a scientific method, but I think that the question of enforcement also comes with that.

The obvious starting point is VMS. We have remote sensing technologies, using vessel monitoring systems, to tell what fishing boats are doing, where they are and whether they are following the rules. That's an obvious starting point. We have a fisheries observer program, which is well developed in our country, and we should be using it to ensure that the fishing industry is following the rules, as it generally tends to do.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Woodley, how would you suggest we enforce bans in marine protected areas?

[Stephen Woodley]

We have lots of experience with protected area management in this country on land. We have not done a good job taking that experience and moving it into the ocean. I don't know why, but we seem to have stumbled as we took the protected area idea and moved it into the oceans. I think that we can learn a lot from how we've managed terrestrial protected areas and apply that to marine ecosystems.

We have to have different technologies so that we have clear boundaries, but they exist now. There are lots of ways to provide enforcement and provide surveillance. There are all kinds of new monitoring techniques being developed for the oceans, and they are going to make management of those areas and management of fish stocks far more effective. I think there are lots of lessons to be learned from that perspective.

I hope that addressed your question.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

We're moving now to Mr. Gunn for three minutes.

We have three minutes left for each of the two sides.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Edinger, in the most recent numbers that I've seen, under the current definitions of protected areas on the west coast of British Columbia, we're up to 35% before some of the Northern Shelf bioregion closures that are coming, 10% in the Atlantic and15% in the Arctic.

Is there a certain something special about B.C.'s coast that requires additional biodiversity protection, as you would put it, that doesn't exist on the Atlantic or in the Arctic?

[Dr. Evan Edinger]

That's a hard question to answer. I've worked a little bit in B.C., but not extensively, and the areas where I've worked have been on the edge of the shelf, as opposed to down in the deep sea.

The largest protected area in B.C. waters covers the Endeavour vent field and is protecting hydrothermal vents. Those are one of the four vulnerable marine ecosystem types identified by the IUCN. It's a huge area and it's all in really deep water, and there are no competing external commercial interests for it. It goes into our per cent area calculations, but the Endeavour hot ridge wouldn't have any economic impact on the fishery, because nobody fishes there.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I take your point that reaching an arbitrary number isn't necessarily the best case for biodiversity or limiting economic impacts.

Mr. Woodley, you're obviously a big proponent of these marine protected areas. Do you acknowledge the potential for negative environmental consequences from forcing the same-sized fishing fleet into a smaller geographic region while they're still attempting to catch the same amount of fish or harvest the same amount of resource?

[Stephen Woodley]

It's a good question.

I think you have to take into account the spillover argument. It's not an area of science I've done research in, but I know the literature on it. If the people are correct on spillover, we'll actually catch more fish if we protect 30% of the ocean.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

You're saying we protect more fish if we protect 30% of the ocean.

[Stephen Woodley]

Yes.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Isn't that the...?

Which fish species are you talking about? Do they not swim in between the different protected and non-protected areas?

[Stephen Woodley]

No, I'm talking about the value—

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

If people are trying to catch a quota on B.C.'s coast and you force the same size fishing fleet into less efficient areas where they have to concentrate their fishing in a smaller geographic area rather than spreading it out throughout an entire coastline, doesn't that increase the risk of overfishing?

[Stephen Woodley]

It doesn't, because if you protect the whole ecosystem in a marine protected area—a no-take marine protected area—the fish get bigger and produce far more offspring, and the juvenile fish survive. They're not caught up in nets and thrown back because they're too small.

If you look at the haddock box off the east coast, you see that most of the fish are caught along the haddock box, along the boundaries. It's well known that fishers fish the boundaries of marine protected areas right around the world.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you. We'll move on to our last person now.

MP Connors, please go ahead for three minutes.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Mr. Woodley, have you ever been involved with the selection of an MPA or the identification of an MPA in Canada?

[Stephen Woodley]

I have, yes.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

What considerations are taken for sustainable fisheries operating in that area when they're identifying an MPA?

[Stephen Woodley]

I can only speak from the Parks Canada perspective, because as I mentioned, I was the chief scientist at Parks Canada, so I provided scientific advice to the identification process. Certainly, there are a whole bunch of things considered, but the fishers who are there and the impact on the fisheries and on the coastal communities are certainly part of the NMCA process. That's what I'm referring to. As you know, there are three organizations that do MPAs federally in Canada.