Evidence of meeting #20 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was area.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Vice-Chair for Science, International Union for the Conservation of Nature, World Commission on Protected Areas, As an Individual
I'm only saying carbon storage is a benefit of ecosystem conservation.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Absolutely. Thank you very much.
The City of Montreal alone dumps over 100 billion litres of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence River every year. It ends up in the Atlantic Ocean. How do you propose to protect marine conservation areas from the effects of sewage dumped in the freshwater bodies in upper Canada that run down the St. Lawrence River? Who's damaging the ocean the most?
Vice-Chair for Science, International Union for the Conservation of Nature, World Commission on Protected Areas, As an Individual
It's a great question. That's why I started with the Convention on Biological Diversity having 23 goals, because it has a goal on pollution. We simply can't and won't be successful at halting and reversing biodiversity loss by implementing only one target.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Why is that dumping not being targeted more so than industries that make their livelihoods from marine ecosystems?
Vice-Chair for Science, International Union for the Conservation of Nature, World Commission on Protected Areas, As an Individual
It is a target, and it's one that Canada has agreed to.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Okay. All right, that's wonderful.
Mr. MacPherson, I have a question for you.
Do you think the 100 billion litres of raw sewage that Montreal dumps every year into the St. Lawrence River damages the Gulf of St. Lawrence ecosystems as much as or more than the fishing industry in the Gulf of St. Lawrence?
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Certainly I would think it would have a very significant and profound effect. Melanie could speak to the diversity of the Gulf of St. Lawrence and how unique it is within some of the ecosystems of the world and how diverse it is. It takes a joint effort, but it's certainly not something the fishing industry can solve on our own.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Thanks.
Do you have any marine protected area fishing closures—any type of fishing—anywhere near Prince Edward Island?
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
There were some that were proposed a few years back. I can't identify the areas; they were more off the coast.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
In B.C., 35% of their waters have become conservation areas so far. What do you think of that balance and how the federal government has rolled out these protected areas across Canada?
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Certainly I'm aware of the challenges that B.C. faces. Geographically, we're very challenged in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and Atlantic Canada because of how we are so condensed and compressed and the lack of massive shorelines. It's as simple as that.
Conservative
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Chair.
My question will go to Ms. Giffin. It's based on the testimony given by Mr. Woodley, who I would like to thank for giving an unbiased, candid perspective on marine protected areas.
This committee's primary responsibility and role is to advise on policy that'll protect the resource fisheries for, obviously, the benefit of those coastal community fishers who participate in that. We know the data show the natural species in worldwide oceans are declining, and nobody disputes that. One of the key areas, much as we sometimes dislike it, is that overharvesting is the biggest reason for stock decline, which you stated. Good oceans benefit nature and people.
Ms. Giffin, why does even the discussion around marine protected areas—because there is a value—get such a negative reaction from fishers? What is the real cause? Is it the way the department approaches it?
Marine Biologist, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I think it's a combination of, yes, the way the department approaches it and the understanding that fishers have that, no matter what, when a marine protected area is put in place, it means there'll be absolutely no fishing, which is not always the case.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
What would be key recommendations this committee could make in addressing that?
We heard earlier from a group from B.C., where they've been living under the unknown for years and years...a possible marine protected area. They were told it's in draft regulation, but no decisions had been made. Quite frankly, for that to go on for that period of time is totally unacceptable.
Can you comment and give an opinion to this committee or give recommendations that would address that?
Marine Biologist, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
The successes we've had in the gulf and with the island here are that the fishers were a very big part of choosing the areas and the protections. MPAs are really only effective if good management and enforcement are both available for them. When it comes to fishers being a part of determining these protected areas, fishers are more inclined to report if somebody is illegally in those areas, so it actually aids in enforcement as well.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
In the establishment of a marine protected area, if it's going to impact a fishery in that area, would you say that it should have the support of the majority of the fishers in that area? Is that a key recommendation?
Marine Biologist, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I would say yes.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Then, in establishing a marine protected area, would you agree that any changes to that marine protected area could be instituted only after consultation with those fishers impacted?
Marine Biologist, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Yes, I think that the fishers need to be involved at every stage. If there are changes, if it's being removed, made bigger or anything, I think fishers need to be involved in that conversation.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
You and Ian both deal with fishers. If the fishers had trust in that process, would you see more buy-in from the fishing community? There is a benefit if it's done properly.
Would you agree, Melanie, as a biologist, that there are benefits to marine protected areas?
Marine Biologist, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I agree that, if done properly, there are benefits, yes.
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Yes, absolutely, and that's what we addressed earlier, the need to look at real communication and dialogue models. I think that's where some of the gaps are happening.
I checked with Melanie, and, yes, we haven't had an MPA meeting or any discussion of MPAs for several years now.
