Evidence of meeting #22 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
Well, all future MPAs—and there are quite a few still in proposal on the west coast—are off-limits for shrimp, so we have to be very careful about which ones we support and which ones we don't. They're also looking backwards to MPAs that were already approved, to implement those four exemptions—so yes, they're going backwards.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Do you think you're being put in front of something without even knowing the benefit of doing an MPA, for example? Yes, of course, we want to predict the ecosystem. We know that—blah, blah, blah—but is there some real, tangible way to see this?
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
Canada's a big country, and we're painting with a very big brush. You're talking about putting small owner-operator trawlers that are less than 60 feet—as compared to those that are almost a kilometre—into the MPA standards, so we're all painted with that same brush.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Monsieur Cormier.
Mr. Deschênes, you may go ahead for six minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon everyone. Good afternoon to our witnesses.
I read yesterday that Newfoundland and Labrador tore up a memorandum of understanding for a marine protected area. The provincial government said the procedure didn't work.
Do you feel something like that could happen in your sectors?
Mr. McIsaac can answer first.
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
For British Columbia, I think it's very unlikely that they're going to tear up an agreement on the northern shelf bioregion. The federal government has entered into a funding agreement, along with the province, with a first nations entity on the north coast for $335 million, so I think that's highly unlikely.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Mr. Barron, do you have anything to add?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
In my area now, with this one already in place—St. Anns Bank—and with the Eastern Canyons already in place, I don't see one happening off Cape Breton.
In another part of Nova Scotia, down off the eastern shore, they're looking at taking away all of LFA 32 as an MPA. They would definitely want to see that agreement not be there.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
It seems to me there's a lesson to be learned from the situation in Newfoundland and Labrador. Without social licence, a government could pull out and block an agreement.
Mr. McIsaac, you said you think a setback is unlikely in your sector, but how would you recommend the process be improved?
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
We've made multiple proposals to improve the process. We've offered to be part of the collaboration in designing it. That has not been accepted. We've made multiple proposals on how to change it so that local fishermen are part of that and part of the exemption.
I co-chaired a session at COP15 in Montreal of small-scale fishers. We had small-scale fishers from across the planet talking about MPAs. Two of the bright spots around the planet for small-scale fishers come from Indonesia and Chile. Both of them involve having protected areas for small-scale harvesters. Indonesia has about 80% of their EEZ protected for small-scale harvesters. In Chile, they have what are called territorial use rights for fisheries, which protect the area inside the MPA for local harvesters, so corporations and multinational fishers have to be outside of that, and their government enforces that.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Basically, it's about paying more attention to what inshore fishers have to say and following their recommendations.
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
The fishermen need to be part of the process. They need to be collaborating on the process.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
I'd like to understand the process. Were you consulted? How did things play out?
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
The MPA network discussion started in 2010. The federal government and the province drafted an agreement on MPAs. We've had probably hundreds of meetings about it since. I would say our key recommendations have been ignored or dismissed through the process.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Who made the recommendations that were retained? Which groups?
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
The MPA network process is an ecological process. It has what I would call a one-dimensional objective: it's ecological. The social and economic objectives are not. They don't have the same weight. If you want to do this, you have to do it inside integrated planning on the coast where multiple objectives can happen. That is where MPA planning should be.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Were the decisions that were made, the ones that went against your recommendations, tied to environmental groups?
Would you say decision-makers paid the most attention to what they had to say?
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Mr. Barron, what are your recommendations for improving the process and bringing fishers onside?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
Instead of providing lip service, like the department does sometimes, and saying they want to weigh in and use fishers' local knowledge on how to operate and stuff, actually use it. We're the boots on the boat. We're the ones who see what happens day to day. It's not the NGOs who are going to sit in front of you and argue that we want to destroy the ocean as an industry, because they don't understand what we see day to day. There has to be real-time, meaningful consultation, and we actually have to be heard and be part of the process, like Mr. McIsaac said.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Do you think it's possible to balance your interests as fishers with conservation targets?
Liberal
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
Yes, but there has to be clear, concise communication in order to come to those decisions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you, Mr. Deschênes.
That completes the first round.
We're going to move on to the second round, starting with Mr. Small for five minutes.