Evidence of meeting #22 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to the witnesses.
Mr. Barron, on this marine conservation strategy of 30 by 30, even eco experts claim that results can't be measured. It seems a little like the Liberal carbon tax plan that was supposed to put money in people's pockets and clean the air at the same time.
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
To me, it seems like they're more or less trying to match or meet what the UN was looking for. Without any really meaningful consultation, they were just charging full ahead.
However, the one thing they seemed to forget when they put these in place is that if we can't fish within a certain area in an MPA, and we're required to travel further, well, we're creating a greater carbon footprint.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
That brings me to something here. Have you had your livelihood either negatively or positively affected by the closed areas? You referenced St. Anns Bank earlier.
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
It has definitely not been positive. We've had to change the way that we fish certain areas at certain times of the year.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
What year was that protected area put in place?
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
That's just over 10 years ago. To your knowledge, have DFO scientists or any other scientists or ENGOs gone out there and measured whatever it was they were trying to protect, to see if it's actually been protected or if there's been an improvement? I'm assuming it's coral or something, or sponge?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
Our association has been contracted by the department a couple times over the 10 years to do a little bit of monitoring, but the amount that's being done has not been beneficial or consistent.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Before the government moves ahead further down the journey of 30 by 30, as it's been instructed to do by the United Nations, do you think it would be better for everyone and better for ecosystems and whatnot if there were measurements taken to check out and make sure that the things that are supposed to be protected are being protected, and that these marine protected areas are delivering the desired outcomes?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
Yes, that goes without saying. Without any real, proper monitoring for what they are trying to protect, we don't know if the growth of what they're trying to protect has actually been successful.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
If fish harvesters were told that 30% of Canadian waters had to be closed to fishing, would you be able to give some advice on where those closed areas should be, as a real partner?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
Yes, of course, because as fishermen we make our livelihoods on the water, so we know what times of the year to move for certain species.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Some group says that this area here is more precious than this area over here—over here, there's nobody fishing. The more precious areas of the ecosystem—the organisms and all God's creatures—are over in an area, but no one knows what exists there in these depths and in these areas. Do you think the setting up of these marine-protected areas is a measure to protect ecosystems or a measure to stop fishing?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
To be honest, at times it feels like it's to stop fishing. However, there's one thing that these people have to take into consideration, especially in areas like where I'm from and where you're from, MP Small. Some of our seasons only operate for two months of the year, so there are 10 months of the year when there's nothing actually happening on the water in certain locations. That should be taken into consideration in the percentage somehow.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Thank you.
Mr. McIsaac, funding streams flow from various organizations. We've heard talk that some funding sources to support the setting up of some of these marine closures to economic activity are foreign. Have you heard anything to that effect coming from the B.C. coast?
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
Certainly part of the $335 million that is going to the first nations entity on the north coast for the NSB is from a foreign entity.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much. I'm afraid we're at time here.
Next we are going to go to Mr. Klassen. You have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here.
I don't think there is anybody in Canada who doesn't want us to make sure that fishing and conservation can exist side by side and that we protect the industry and the livelihood of the people who are on the waters.
Mr. McIsaac, you were talking about some of the other countries that have MPAs. I'm just wondering if you can give us a little bit of a comparison of how they are structuring them versus the way Canada is structuring them.
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
I'm certainly not an expert on that, but from the COP15 panel that I chaired, I would say that the majority of small-scale harvesters around the planet are deeply concerned with the objective of 30 by 30. We had examples from Africa of small-scale harvesters being shot at by enforcement people to get them off the water in areas that had been protected without their knowledge. Yes, I think there are much better ways to protect biodiversity than doing it the way it's being done currently.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you so much.
Mr. Barron, I think you were saying that in British Columbia the MPAs are already at 35%. I'm wondering if you know in Atlantic Canada what percentage of the goal has been reached there.
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
I'm pretty sure that I didn't say anything about B.C.'s, MPAs, because I wouldn't know too much about what's going on out there. As I mentioned, in 2019, Canada as a whole was at 13.8% when they were looking at 10%, so they exceeded it in four years.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Mr. McIsaac then that said that in B.C. we were on 35% of the waters. You were talking about exemptions for first nations fishers. I'm wondering if there are any exemptions for non-first nations in any of the MPAs.
Executive Director, BC Shrimp Trawlers’ Association
There are certainly MPAs that allow fisheries, sports fishing and commercial fishing, so there are a variety of different ones. As I was saying, it's like the rockfish conservation areas. They allow some sports fishing, some trap fishing and even mid-water trawl. They don't allow commercial longline for rockfish or halibut, but indigenous fishermen are allowed to do that in all 164 areas.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you.
Ms. Barkley, MPAs are often discussed in isolation, but your testimony points to a broader tool box. From your perspective, how should MPAs be aligned with fish management plans and fishers out in the open waters?
President, Little Campbell Hatchery Society
Our success and the success of other hatcheries depends heavily on what happens once juvenile salmon reach the river. Estuaries and nearshore areas are critical transition zones for us where young salmon can acclimate from fresh water to salt water, feed intensively and then grow before heading offshore. These areas provide sheltered habitat and rich food sources that are essential during this vulnerable stage.
On MPAs, from our perspective—and I feel like I'm a really little fish in a big pond here today—I think our voice is an important one. MPAs help safeguard these estuaries and nearshore habitats, improving the chances that the fishery release will survive, return as adults and contribute to the conservation of fisheries. This will help support the sport fisheries industry and provide a food source for the various marine animals and mammals out there.