Evidence of meeting #29 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was site.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Allard  Fisherwoman, As an Individual
Bourdages  Fishermen, As an Individual
Roberge  Fishermen, As an Individual
Figueroa  Researcher and Executive Assistant, Impact on Training, Center for Initiation to Research and Support for Sustainable Development
Courtemanche  General Manager, Merinov
Fortin  Industrial Researcher-Project Manager, Merinov
Lambert Koizumi  Executive Director, Mi'gmaq Wolastoqey Indigenous Fisheries Management Association
Jerome  Commercial Fisher, Mi'gmaq Wolastoqey Indigenous Fisheries Management Association

Esteban Figueroa Researcher and Executive Assistant, Impact on Training, Center for Initiation to Research and Support for Sustainable Development

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and committee members.

First, I would like to thank you for the invitation to participate in this committee study on recreational and traditional fishing for softshell clam in the Gaspésie. As you can see from the testimony you have heard, fishing for softshell clam is rooted in history and the relationship with the area is also very important for people who engage in this activity.

I work with the Center for Initiation to Research and Support for Sustainable Development, and in the course of my work, I was involved in a project with historians in 2020. We collected data to document this activity and the results of the ethnographic study showed that softshell clam fishing in the Gaspésie remains a vibrant and socially important activity.

Each spring and fall, hundreds of Gaspésie residents gather on the tidelands to mark the change of seasons and the return to the sea after winter. There's a very symbolic aspect to this activity, which is a true temporal and cultural signifier, linked with key times on the social and family calendar, as you have heard from witnesses.

Three key findings emerged from the study I did with my colleagues. They relate to intangible cultural heritage, sustainable local development and food self-sufficiency.

Clam fishing is part of the intangible cultural heritage that is based on local knowledge. As you have heard, social practices and activities are passed on from generation to generation. All of this confirms that this activity fully meets the criteria for intangible cultural heritage. It is transmitted to others not through textbooks or training, but orally, from one person to another, from one generation to the next. Learning involves observing the tides, the moon and winds. This knowledge transmission depends on relationships, meaning that there are family and friendship ties between people who engage in this activity, and this helps build individuals' identity and maintain a close link with the Gaspésie coast and community.

When it comes to local sustainable development, the study highlighted some self-regulating mechanisms that are well established among clam fishers. The 15 or so fishers who were interviewed emphasized the importance of having respect for other users of the resource, avoiding overfishing the same area, and complying with size and quantity limits, as Ms. Allard also noted. This culture of moderation and respect for the local environment is already a solid foundation on which controlled openings of new harvesting areas could be based. It also shows that clam fishing is not an unbridled activity, but rather a deeply rooted and socially regulated local practice that is compatible with sustainable resource management principles.

Finally, when it comes to food self-sufficiency, the testimony gathered revealed that clam fishing already makes a significant contribution to the local food supply. The clams are eaten fresh, processed, canned or added to family recipes that are handed down from one generation to the next. Many clam fishers explicitly link this activity to a kind of food self-sufficiency, noting that it is a local, accessible and available resource, unlike more industrialized food models. Opening new areas would boost this contribution to the food supply while strengthening the resilience of coastal communities.

Beyond the nutritional dimension, as I mentioned earlier, clam fishing is replete with symbolism. It represents a tangible relationship with the land. People identify with the land, these practices and the natural dimension. Fishing takes place in spring and fall, but mostly in spring. It is seen as a distinctive feature of the Gaspésie identity. This widely shared social recognition enhances the legitimacy of sustaining this fishing activity, rather than restricting it, because it is also a traditional activity.

Given the current concerns regarding food self-sufficiency and sustainable development, it would seem necessary to rethink regulatory frameworks governing access to this recreational fishery and to consider a controlled opening of new harvesting areas. This opening should be based on a gradual and coordinated approach that includes environmental assessments with sampling, consideration of local knowledge—

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

I'm sorry to cut you off, but your time is almost up. I'll ask you to wrap up quickly.

5:30 p.m.

Researcher and Executive Assistant, Impact on Training, Center for Initiation to Research and Support for Sustainable Development

Esteban Figueroa

Okay.

In conclusion, the findings of the research project that we conducted demonstrate that clam fishing is an ongoing, structured, socially regulated and meaningful activity for communities in the Gaspésie. By recognizing the strategic benefits of this activity and adapting the regulatory framework to the realities of local communities, the federal government would be taking meaningful action that is consistent with the aspirations of coastal communities and the principles of sustainable resource development.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much.

We'll now hear from David Courtemanche and Marie‑Gil Fortin, for five minutes or less.

David Courtemanche General Manager, Merinov

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for inviting us to this meeting.

Merinov is Canada's largest integrated research and innovation centre in fisheries, aquaculture and seafood processing. Merinov is a non-profit organization, and like the Center for Initiation to Research and Support for Sustainable Development, our mission is to support organizations and businesses in the sector, which is fisheries in Merinov's case.

Regarding the topic at hand, Merinov has been a subcontractor for Environment Canada for over 30 years. We conduct water quality analyses in the shellfish harvesting areas of the Gaspésie and the Îles de la Madeleine for the Canadian shellfish sanitation program, or CSSP.

Merinov has a team trained to collect water samples according to established standards, and a fleet of Zodiac boats and equipment of various sizes, allowing us to collect samples in both open waters and shallow waters along the coastline.

Merinov also operates an ISO 17025-accredited microbiology laboratory for fecal coliform analysis in seawater, using the required method. It is the only laboratory in eastern Quebec, or rather in the Gaspésie and the Îles de la Madeleine, with this accreditation.

The opening and closing of shellfish production or harvesting sites is a complex process involving two departments and a federal agency, namely, Environment Canada, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, as well as service providers that conduct analyses as required to support decision-making. Merinov is one of the service providers that support the departments' missions. This strict process is important to prevent poisonings that can be fatal and to keep export markets open to Canadian products.

If you will allow me, I would like to give the floor to Marie‑Gil Fortin, our industrial researcher who is responsible for the project with Environment Canada pertaining to monitoring water quality. She will be able to give you more details on our role and the main areas in which Merinov could provide assistance to communities and organizations in the area to enable the opening of new sites.

Marie-Gil Fortin Industrial Researcher-Project Manager, Merinov

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

I have been responsible for the project with Environment Canada since 2022. As part of our mandate with the department, our role is limited to water sampling and analysis.

The sampling plan is determined by Environment Canada and is sometimes adjusted by department officials based on available budgets. Environment Canada is also responsible for interpreting the results and recommending whether to open or close harvesting areas.

In addition to performing regular CSSP analyses, we offer water assessment, sampling and analysis services to aquaculture businesses and community groups that want to open new areas for commercial or recreational harvesting.

Opening a new site requires different types of evaluations and analyses.

The first step is to assess the abundance of biomass at the target site. This step is the responsibility of Fisheries and Oceans Canada. We checked with officials from the department, and they agreed to share their methodology. They also agreed to consider the results provided by Merinov. Generally, for softshell clams, the density depends on the type of sediment. Sites with fine mud and sand are conducive to the presence of softshell clams.

The second step is to assess the sources of pollution that could affect the site. The most common sources of pollution that can prevent a site from opening are waste water treatment systems and runoff from agricultural areas. This step is the responsibility of Environment Canada. Officials from the department have already assessed a number of sites. Not all results are publicly available, and it is therefore important to check with them to see if the site in question has already been assessed.

The third step is water quality monitoring, which involves sampling and laboratory analysis by service providers and the data submitted to Environment Canada. Opening a new site requires a minimum of 15 sampling rounds over a two-year period. Once the site is classified by the CSSP, regular sampling with five sampling rounds must then be conducted annually.

The fourth and final step is to assess the biotoxins present in the flesh of the molluscs. This step is carried out by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, but it comes only as a last resort since toxins do not remain in the flesh for long and it would therefore be pointless to characterize them too far in advance.

Finally, it is important to note that the Quebec regional interministerial committee for shellfish, which is comprised of all the departments involved in the decision-making, is the entry point for submitting a request to open a new area.

In summary, Merinov could provide assistance with biomass characterization and water quality monitoring for the opening of new harvesting sites.

Thank you for your attention.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much.

Finally, we will hear from Catherine Lambert Koizumi and Jeremy Jerome, for five minutes or less.

Catherine Lambert Koizumi Executive Director, Mi'gmaq Wolastoqey Indigenous Fisheries Management Association

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, everyone.

My name is Catherine Lambert Koizumi. I am the executive director of the AGHAMW, or the Mi'gmaq Wolastoqey Indigenous Fisheries Management Association. It is a pleasure to be with you this evening. The AGHAMW supports three first nations in the Gespe'gewa'gi and the Wolastoq in the sustainable management and conservation of marine ecosystems, acknowledging their rights and fostering their participation in the governance of fisheries and aquaculture.

From time immemorial, clam harvesting has been an essential traditional activity for our communities in terms of both our culture and our food. Our communities would like to regain access to historic harvesting sites which today have been closed for a number of years. We feel that several areas have real potential for reopening.

As I understand it, access remains limited for three main reasons. First, the closures do not always reflect the alleged risks; they often reflect a lack of recent data that would confirm that they are viable. Then, federal resources for sampling and testing have been decreasing since the 1980s, meaning that the closures become mechanical. With fewer stations and fewer data, fewer areas are open. Finally, the current model used by the Canadian Shellfish Sanitation Program does not fully account for the ability and knowledge of first nations, despite their constant presence on the ground and their expertise in fisheries management.

We at AGHAMW would like to propose three concrete solutions: invest in testing and monitoring programs, include first nations in data collection and monitoring, and establish co-management pilot projects so that areas where data show satisfactory viability can be progressively reopened.

We believe that harvesting sites can be reopened and that doing so is safe and desirable. All that is required is targeted investment and meaningful collaboration with the communities.

I will now yield the floor to my colleague, Jeremy Jerome, who will be able to tell you how important the activity is for his community and for himself.

.Wela'lioq, woliwon.

Jeremy Jerome Commercial Fisher, Mi'gmaq Wolastoqey Indigenous Fisheries Management Association

[Witness spoke in Mi'kmaq]

[English]

I spoke in my mother tongue because that's who I am.

I thank the chairman for having me here, along with everybody else around the table.

I would like to speak of the the clam in particular. It's an important food source. It's the beginning of a new season and it is hard to not be able to harvest this little delicacy. Like my friend Gaston mentioned, we drive along a long stretch of coastline and we are not allowed to stop to pick clams. It's heartbreaking. We still have elders in our communities who don't have access and it's not everybody that... I don't know how to express it. I'm here before you because I was asked to appear, and I'm here because this is something that I've been affected by. Hopefully, we will band together, the people from Bonaventure, Port-Daniel and all these places where they pick clams—not just the Mi'kmaq, but the small communities that thrived on clams.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much, Mr. Jerome.

With that, we're going to go into a round of questions, starting with Mr. Small for six minutes.

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for either of the folks from Merinov, whoever would like to answer.

How's the quality of the water and the occurrence of toxins, pathogens and whatnot currently compared with how it was when you began your role of testing the water for these various government departments?

5:45 p.m.

Industrial Researcher-Project Manager, Merinov

Marie-Gil Fortin

Water quality is much the same as it was before. Actually, I should clarify that our data are only for areas that are open. So generally, the quality of the water that we test is very good because those sites are specifically selected. I have no precise information on water quality over time for the sites that we do not monitor.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

How do the people of Baie des Chaleurs expect to gain equitable access to these clam harvesting areas if the areas that are closed aren't being tested? That sounds awfully strange to me.

5:45 p.m.

General Manager, Merinov

David Courtemanche

I can add that most sites were actually open twenty or so years ago, so they were tested. Then the Department of the Environment and Climate Change decided to concentrate on areas with a more commercial fishery. The other areas were closed by default. That is why we are now in a situation where, 20 or 25 years later, the areas are still closed by default. If a community organization wants to have a site reopened, it has to demonstrate quite exhaustively that the area is safe and secure for fishing, harvesting or production.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

How efficient do you think the process is? You're working amongst three departments federally in three or four provinces, and in Quebec, you're looking at an additional one. On top of the three federal ones, you've got a provincial one there. Do you think that we've got some overzealous bureaucrats looking after their own jobs while punishing the people who are relying on this resource? Is that possible?

5:45 p.m.

General Manager, Merinov

David Courtemanche

We're not in a position to comment on this aspect. However, the three different departments have different fields of expertise or fields where they have to accredit to open or close the site. There are different mandates associated with the departments. From what we've seen, we don't think it's an efficiency issue here. It's more a resource issue. As Catherine just mentioned a few minutes ago, the resources were diminished or reduced in the different departments and probably that led to this kind of situation where now the public has to pay for these kinds of services.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Mr. Courtemanche, did the funding that was allocated to carry out this testing come from the aquatic ecosystems budget within DFO?

5:45 p.m.

General Manager, Merinov

David Courtemanche

For the sampling that we are currently doing, the funds come from Environment and Climate Change Canada. Depending on the length of the contract, they are renewed every three years or so. The issue generally is indeed financial resources. The department is limited in the resources it can allocate to the sampling that is currently being done. Every three years, in fact, the department tells us that resources are limited.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Basically, we're told that this is about a 10-year-old problem. There were very many years in the last 10 years where there was lots of funding. There have been some cuts here this year, but this is a multi-year problem that we're looking at here. Can you blame the buildup of this crisis in the local communities on budgeting when it's a 10-year-old problem?

5:45 p.m.

General Manager, Merinov

David Courtemanche

I cannot comment on this one.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL

Would anyone like to comment?

Mr. Généreux, would you like to have what's left of my time?

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Only 10 seconds remain. We can come back to this in the next round.

With that, we're going to go to Mr. Klassen, for six minutes.

Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Thank you very much, and again welcome to the witnesses.

It sounds like there is an issue of a bit of a manpower or person power shortage to go out and do all the testing. I'm sure we're all in agreement that we want to ensure the safety of the people who are consuming the fish or the shellfish as well as for the harvesters.

Mr. Figueroa, you talked about socially and culturally appropriate processes. Is there a commercial component to this? if there is enough testing, could we look at a commercial component to harvesting?

5:50 p.m.

Researcher and Executive Assistant, Impact on Training, Center for Initiation to Research and Support for Sustainable Development

Esteban Figueroa

As has been mentioned, it's recreational fishing. There is no commercial harvesting. It seems that it would be difficult to open a commercial fishery in the areas that are currently open. We are already working to make it more accessible to the public, but there has been no commercial fishing for a good many years.

We are really trying to develop all the social and community aspects, which are very strong in Gaspésie. A request for a site to be opened could come from a committee of people from a community and of experts. We can see here that we have experts ready to work together. It certainly could be interesting to establish an interdisciplinary project. It would be possible, but, of course, it would take resources that, as you have recognized, are shinking.

Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Thank you.

Ms. Fortin, I think you said that for a time there weren't enough people to test the waters. From the time a request goes in to open a site, how long is the testing process before a site can be opened again?