Fisheries Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, Acadie—Annapolis, NS]

Let's go to the eyes and ears for a second. The eyes and ears are not only the fishery officers and the Coast Guard folks; they're the fishers.

It seems like when we talk to associations—on redfish, we've heard from a number of folks—they feel they're not being consulted by the department. They feel that the pleas from associations and independent fish harvesters groups are falling on deaf ears. How is the department going to fix that?

This is prevalent across catch groups, whether it's on lobster or herring. They finally got somewhere on herring, but it took them years of lobbying the government to get there.

How are we going to change this? We have people on the ground, doing the work and seeing the fish stocks either declining or increasing, and we have a department that doesn't listen to them.

[Annette Gibbons]

The department is well aware of the criticisms. It is difficult, often, to reconcile DFO's peer-reviewed science conclusions with the observations of harvesters, and we've talked about some of those examples this morning. Striped bass, for example, is one and mackerel is another. We're constantly having those conversations.

I would say that the department really values the perspective of harvesters and the information harvesters provide in the process, whether that is through formal science input—we have partnerships with harvesters and are always open to doing more of those—or our regular engagement consultation fora, such as the advisory committees.

We know we need to improve in this area. We know there are concerns about the level of engagement the department does, and we want to make sure people feel heard. We have been working on ways to be more proactive, to use plain language for our science advice and to provide opportunities for people to give feedback on the science advice in a more deliberate way.

[Chris d'Entremont, Conservative, Acadie—Annapolis, NS]

The department has changed its model over the last number of years. I can remember when local DFO offices had people in them. Right now, they have locked doors. You can't find a fishery officer. They're out doing their work, which is great, but there is nobody there to actually talk to. Everything is online. Most people don't have access to you by phone.

How are we, as an opposition, to push government to change its model of care? There is a model of care here that we're really falling down on. The department has to pick up this ball, because the communities that depend on the fishery feel unheard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to jump in. Perhaps there could be a response to that in writing.

With that, we're going to move to Mr. Connors for five minutes.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Thank you.

Welcome, Deputy Minister Gibbons.

My question is going to be on the transfer of the Coast Guard to National Defence.

How will the transfer affect DFO's ability to collect scientific data aboard Coast Guard boats?

[Annette Gibbons]

We are very seized with that particular issue. We are seized with the other ways the Coast Guard supports the department's mandate, such as icebreaking to open fisheries in the spring. As part of that transfer—we're still working on this because it's a detailed piece and there are lots of moving parts—we're working on an agreement with the Department of National Defence that outlines the expectations of DFO and the service levels the Coast Guard will provide. They are our platform for science and we will certainly be continuing a regular dialogue.

The Coast Guard and the Department of National Defence have been very clear that this is a priority for them. We will make sure we have a very clear governance arrangement around this and that we continue to stay in very close contact so we can plan in real time and ensure that the needs of the department are met.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Do we anticipate any safety concerns, or anything like that, for DFO now?

[Annette Gibbons]

We don't expect there to be any change in the situation for department officials on Coast Guard vessels.

The Coast Guard will be acquiring a new security mandate under a bill currently in the House. That is the plan. However, the Coast Guard remains very much the same civilian agency that it is now. It was picked up and moved over very much the same as it is now. This security mandate will not change the impact on DFO, in our estimation.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

I'll go back to what was discussed earlier with the minister.

I will get your opinion on the disconnect between DFO and harvesters when it comes to information. This could be for changes in regulations and programs or in how to use new tools such as e-logs and stuff like that.

What is DFO's plan to bridge this gap so that harvesters don't feel so in the dark?

[Annette Gibbons]

We're working on a number of fronts. We have engagement at all levels.

We have lots of engagement with the federation of harvesters and, at a local level, with local fish harvester organizations. I noted a couple of questions back that we are working to do a better job relaying what we're seeing on the science side and making sure people have a chance to provide their feedback on that. In the advisory committees we have, which are on the management of fisheries, we want to make sure we have the views of harvesters before we proceed to management decisions for a fishery in any given year. We're trying to make those as early as possible if there are contentious issues, in order to offer additional opportunities for exchange. There are things I mentioned such as partnerships on science—all kinds of areas where we want to make sure we are accessible and in listening mode for people.

I've been in this role for three years. It's very difficult in this department to make everybody happy. These are peoples' livelihoods and there is so much at stake for them. That is something the department has front of mind all the time. At times, for example, we're making decisions based on conservation where people fundamentally disagree and are very unhappy about it. It affects their family budget. We understand this is very difficult. At the same time, the department's mandate is to try to preserve fish stocks for the future. Those decisions are not always going to make everybody happy.

What we have to do is make sure we are accessible to people. I take the point about doors being locked. The doors are locked because we've changed the way we work and because we have had incidents of threats to employees. That's a very difficult situation. However, we still have to be very accessible and very open to the input of associations and the public on how we can do a better job on that front.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Connors.

That completes the second round. We're going to do an abridged third round. It will be three and a half minutes for the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party, then two minutes for the Bloc Québécois.

I'm going to turn the floor over to Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Deputy Minister, you referenced potential impact on other stocks of concern being the reason for not expanding access to the summer-run Fraser sockeye this year. Early indications were of an incredible run size. We heard of seine test nets coming in with 10,000 fish per seine. The recommendations and indications were that those summer-run fish could have been accessed much earlier to avoid the late-fall run that you seem to reference as being of concern.

After 40 years of dedicated service to Pacific salmon fishery management, Mike Griswold resigned from the Pacific Salmon Commission's Fraser River panel in August because he could no longer support the government's mismanagement of Fraser River sockeye.

Why has Pacific salmon management failed so badly that trusted veteran experts are resigning in protest?

[Annette Gibbons]

Salmon science, consultations in B.C., the number of stocks, the different states of different stocks and the fact that they migrate together are all things that make it a very complex environment. We do a tremendous amount of engagement on this and—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Why were the decisions so slow? Were there other reasons the decisions weren't made to increase access to those extremely abundant stocks of summer-run sockeye?

[Annette Gibbons]

In my experience, we are often up against the clock on salmon decisions. It is partly when the science is done. It is partly the engagement and the consultation we do for the various mechanisms. This is something the region is very aware of and really tries to prevent, but it is one of those areas where it is very difficult to provide—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Ms. Gibbons, where do fish harvesters and processors get their funding from to cover their costs to attend stock advisory meetings?

[Annette Gibbons]

Mr. Chair, I don't believe the department funds people to come. I think they pay for themselves.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

They fund themselves.

Who funds your department to cover the cost of these advisory meetings?

[Annette Gibbons]

Mr. Chair, the departmental officials, when they're working, are paid their salaries—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

It would be taxpayers.

[Annette Gibbons]

—and they're paid for travel if they have to travel for meetings.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Where do the NGOs receive their funding from so that they can attend stock advisory meetings?

[Annette Gibbons]

Mr. Chair, I'm not an expert on NGO funding.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Central Newfoundland, NL]

Well, most of their funding comes from outside Canada. Would you not agree that groups being funded by foreigners amounts to foreign influence in our fishing industry?

[Annette Gibbons]

In response to a previous question on this, I indicated that there are lots of people with expertise and perspectives on fisheries in Canada. It's international—